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A Report from the Front - Chinese Adoption from a Parent’s Perspective

November 27, 2007 - Tuesday
12:57 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers: Fran Kellner, Esq.

Categories
Adoption • International Adoption


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Corey_Whelan Hi and welcome to tonight's on line chat. I am Corey Whelan, The AFA's Director of Development and your chat moderator this evening. Tonight's speaker will be joining us shortly. I am very pleased to have Fran Kellner, Esq., join us tonight. Fran has been a member of The American Fertility Assn's board of directors for many years. Fran is also the mom of a beautiful little girl who she recently, along with her husband Don, adopted from China. Fran will be joining us shortly and will be here to answer your questions about the adoption process.
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Corey_Whelan Welcome Fran! Folks, our speaker has joined us. Welcome to all of you. Please feel free to post your questions.
sb10847 Fran, Congratulations on your recent adoption. What were the easiest and hardest aspects of the process for you?
fran_kellner Thank you! The hardest was without a doubt the wait; it went from 6-7 months to 19 months, which we had not expected! The easiest was meeting our daughter and bringing her into our family; it felt very natural and perfect from the first day!
Corey_Whelan Fran, can you talk a little bit about the costs of adopting from China?
Corey_Whelan financial, not emotional!
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fran_kellner Sure. The cost vary a bit by agency, and also by how you choose to travel. It was surprising to me that the trip itself was such a big portion of the costs. I never totalled the cost itself; the agency fees, etc. were all known upfront. It was well over $25,000 in the end, but that is because we travelled for a long time in China (we took a 10 day trip before we got our daughter to see as much as we could), and we travelled with 4 people. It can be a LOT less than that.
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sb10847 Could you also please comment on how health issues are addressed, being that China has a high incidence of HIV and Hepatitis?
Caitlin20Z Hi everyone. I'm wondering if you can adopt from China if you are single? I'm single and in my thirties, well almost 39, but I'm also somewhat "chunky" and I heard that that is a problem.
fran_kellner The babies are all tested in China for HIV and hepatitis. It is of course possible that the test results are incorrect, but I am not aware of any babies coming here and testing positive for HIV; I think that would be very rare. Hepatitis is another story; babies do come who are positive for Hep., but my understanding is that it is considerably less than 10%.
fran_kellner Caitlin, unfortunately you can no longer adopt from China if you are single. They just ended single adoptions in May of '07. My understanding is that Viet Nam may be a better place to try.
catherine can you speak to the new mental health requirements for parents-to-be? I am bipolar, under treatment and taking meds.
sb10847 My husband and I plan to attend an informational session on international adoption at a recommended agency in our area. Any key questions you would recommend that we ask the agency up front?
Corey_Whelan catherine's question first, then sb.
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fran_kellner Catherine, I don't know the specifics of the new mental health requirements. I do know, however, that China has gotten very strict on medical issues including the use of medications such as anti-depressants, so if you are set on China, the health issues would be the first question I would ask my agency. I don't think I'd be too optimistic, unfortunately.
Corey_Whelan Hi Barb, welcome. We're discussing Chinese adoption with Fran Kellner, who recently adopted from China.
Dee How did you go about preparing your daughters for the long trip and for the adoption in general? How soon in the process did you involve them? We have a son by birth, and have only just started to broach the subject with him. Any advice is welcome!
kateknox68 What made you pick China vs. other countries?
fran_kellner Key questions to ask an agency at this point are how long they expect it to take to get a referral. It has gotten ridiculously long; some are saying it will be over 3 years, maybe even 4 . . . there is a huge backlog of dossiers in China now. The wait is currently 2 years but is expected to increase. So I'd ask about that. I'd also ask about waiting children. That can shorten the wait.
fran_kellner Dee, we prepared our daughters right from the beginning. We talked about bringing home a baby from another country; when we settled on China, we read books about China and went to Chinese restaurants often, etc. My older daughter took classes in Chinese painting and language. The little one was just plain excited. The harder thing was managing expections given the wait. That was tough. I would expect your son to be alternately excited and to also say he has changed his mind. We went through cycles of this over the wait. And we have had the same changing emotions since we brought our daughter home! (Can we send her back now, mom?)
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fran_kellner Kate -
Corey_Whelan Hi Megahopes, welcome
Corey_Whelan Sorry, my font is doing something hinky and I don't know why
fran_kellner Kate - When we were looking at countries back in '05, China was the best fit for us. I had travelled in Asia and was very interested in it, but Viet Nam was still closed. We thought about Guatemala but it felt like a harder fit for our family. We knew we wanted a girl and could not have gotten one in Korea, since we already had 2 daughters (even if we hadn't aged out, which we had). The program back then was predictable with a short wait. I would not choose China if I were going now, unless I went the special needs route.
Corey_Whelan What about older kids?
fran_kellner I should clarify that the reason I would not choose China now is because of the long and growing and unpredictable wait -- not for any other reason!
sb10847 Please define "referral" and "waiting children". What country would you choose now?
fran_kellner There are definitely older kids in China!
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fran_kellner When I say "referral" I mean the time when the Chinese government chooses a baby to offer you and sends you the information on that child. Once you accept that referral for that child, you get to pick him or her up 6 to 8 weeks later.
fran_kellner Waiting children are kids who have special needs. Often they are not all that serious -- for example, a missing digit, or strabismus (crossed-eyes -- correctable) or a corrected cleft palate that requires some more surgery. That area of Chinese adoptions is growing, and I would absolutely consider going that route if I were to adopt again.
fran_kellner As far as other countries, I would look at Viet Nam, but you have to be very careful about what agency you choose because unlike China, adoptions are not centralized there so they vary dramatically by agency, or Ethiopia, about which I know little at this point.
kateknox68 What was the hardest part of the adoption process?
Corey_Whelan If anyone is considering Viet Nam and wishes to get some agency recommendations, you can certainly call The AFA helpline to get a list of agencies in your geographical area.
Barb Is the age cap different for adopting these older children?
fran_kellner Kate, nothing was really that "hard" except for the emotional piece and the waiting. But there is a lot of painful drudge work. The paper work requires a lot of time and organization and is anxiety-provoking. Also, I found the very idea that people were delving so deeply into our lives a bit hard, because it was so intrusive. But you've just gotta do what you've gotta do . . .
kateknox68 True - and it can't be any worse than IVF!
fran_kellner Barb, I don't know the answer to that. I have a vague sense that it might be a bit older than 50 but I don't know for sure. I can find out for you and Corey can tell me how to get that info to you later, if you like.
fran_kellner Kate - No, it's DEFINITELY not more intrusive than IVF!
Corey_Whelan You can email me at corey@theafa.org at any time, just please put chat participant in the subject line
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Corey_Whelan Welcome frances!
kateknox68 Fran - did you consider domestic adoption as well?
Barb thanks Fran, thanks Corey
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Corey_Whelan clfarzan, welcome to tonight's chat with F ran Kellner.
clfarzan thank you
fran_kellner Kate, I did consider domestic adoption, but not as seriously. I had lost several pregnancies, including one fairly late-ish, and I was terrified by the thought of a birth mother deciding to parent and me feeling like I had lost another baby. So international felt safer. We are also people who love to travel, have travelled extensively and loved the idea of bringing another culture into our family, so that aspect of international appealed to us. I can say, though, that I do regret that we will probably never know who our baby's birth parents are. I wish we could have that information for her. Domestic certainly can give you more openness, which I think is a good thing.
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kateknox68 Anything you wish you done differently through the whole process?
sb10847 Do most agencies require that one stops all assisted-reproductive attempts once you start the paperwork for an adoption?
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Corey_Whelan welcome, cschleg!
cschleg thanks
cschleg I know I'm late...nothing is showing up in my window other than your welcome Corey. help??
Corey_Whelan yes, if you click on the action key, it will show you what you have missed thus far tonight.
fran_kellner I wish I had gone along for the ride less impatiently. I never really let myself believe we would actually get a baby from China. I always thought something would happen; or I'd get pregnant; or we'd get ill and find out we couldn't finish the adoption; or China would close before we got our referral. (I sound like a cup of sunshine, don't I?). So I didn't let myself get excited. That meant I didn't do the reading about China, about adopting, etc. I could have done. I didn't try to learn any mandarin. I didn't really prepare like I should have. I would do that differently if I could have.
Corey_Whelan top left of your screen
cschleg got it thx
Corey_Whelan and the entire transcript will be up in about a week as well
fran_kellner Sb, some agenciens require that one stop all attempts. Mine did not, and I did not. They were more a don't ask don't tell kind of place, which worked for me. With a several year wait, it's hardly fair to ask prospective adoptive parents to stop trying.
sb10847 I agree, in the context of the wait time.
fran_kellner Yeah, it would not be hard to have a baby or two before you even got close to getting a referral, at this rate!
fran_kellner A hot issue in China adoption now is the question of "concurrent adoptions" -- is it okay to get a baby from , say, Ethiopia while your dossier is sitting in China. I don't think China has said anything definitive about that yet. People are doing it, but some are nervous.
Corey_Whelan Do people attempt to adopt concurrently with the hopes of getting two babies or of taking the first one only? That is very expensive, I would assume
fran_kellner A really great website for info on China adoptions is www.chinaadopttalk.com. It is a blog by someone known as the "rumor queen." It has both the blog, which looks primarily at the wait, and also forums with loads of info. I urge anyone interested in or in the process of adopting from China to look at this!
sb10847 What do you know about Korean adoptions, in addition to your prior comment?
fran_kellner I think that those who do concurrent adoptions very much want to proceed with both. However, given the increasing wait, people are dropping out of the China program all the time. Most of the money does not change hands until you get your referral, so it is expensive to drop out, but not extraordinarily so.
fran_kellner I think Korea is a great place , if you are young enough and healthy enough. The age cut -off made it impossible for us (it's 42 or 44, depending on agency). But the babies come home young, the prenatal care is generally very good, and you get a lot of medical history, which you don't with China. I have heard, though, that the Korea program has been slowing down. Still, if you qualify for it, it is a great place. Oh -- one more thing -- you cannot always choose gender there. It varies by your situation (prior children, etc.)
sb10847 Does age cut-off apply to both parents? My husband is four years older than I am.
fran_kellner Yes, the age cut off is for both parents.
cschleg do most agencies both domestic and foreign have age cut offs? Doesn't a perfect health record work in your favor?
fran_kellner For China, the age cut off and health requirements are put in place by the government of China. They are NOT agency -specific. It is possible that some agencies have stricter policies than China's, but that is not generally the case. For China, the cut-off is now 50, and they have a specific set of health requirements. Of course, good health works in your favor, but they won't let a healthy 56 year old adopt.
sb10847 Have you found adoption support groups helpful. Do you socialize with a community of others who have adopted from China?
Corey_Whelan Guys, just want to let you know we've only got about five minutes left. It was a quick hour!
fran_kellner I have participated in online support groups that I find very helpful for info, etc. I am just starting to get involved in the large local groups of Chinese adopted families, so I don't yet know what that will be like. We do get together with other families who have adopted from China who we have met during the process and we love to do that and want to do more of it.
sb10847 Fran (and Corey), thank you so much. This session has been tremendously informative!
kateknox68 I agree - thank you so much for the great insight - it's so helpful!
cschleg thanks!
fran_kellner You are welcome. Adopting a baby from China has been the most stunning, wonderful thing I have done. Any doubts I ever had about adoption were instantly erased. If you ever have a chance to do somehting like this you should!
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Dee Thank you, Fran, and best of luck to you and your family!
kateknox68 Well said - thank you
Barb thank you, and best wishes for us ALL!
Corey_Whelan I want to thank you all for being here tonight, it was a really informative chat. Thanks Fran. It means so much to have the perspective of someone who has actually gone through the process. I am looking forward to checking out that website myself! Thanks everyone. We're wrapped up. Can I please request that you log off by letting us know what state you live in? Thanks so much.
kateknox68 Maine
cschleg virginia
Barb Virginia
Dee New York
nmorris New York - and thank you...
sb10847 New York
Corey_Whelan And I'm sitting in Brooklyn NY. Thanks guys and sweet dreams. You know I wish you all so very, very much luck. Goodnight.
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fran_kellner And I'm in New York (Westchester County). Bye, guys, and good luck to all!!
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