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Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine for IVF Support

February 13, 2007 - Tuesday
12:59 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers: Amanda J. Silver, MS. LAc

Categories
Acupuncture • Infertility • IVF • Yoga

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Corey_Whelan	Welcome everyone to tonight's chat. I am your moderator, the AFA's Director of Development, Corey Whelan. I am pleased to announce that tonight's special guest speaker is Amanda Silver. We are so lucky to have Amanda on board. She is a staff acupuncturist at Turning Point Acupuncture, which is based in NYC. Giving Amanda keyboard support is her colleague Deborah Pannell. Amanda has studied both Eastern and Western medicine as well as various kinds of acupuncture and herbal medicine. She is here to answer all of your questions about acupuncture and it's potential role in your medical treatment for fertility.
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Corey_Whelan	Hi everyone. Amanda will be here shortly. If anyone would like to pop a question onto the board please feel free to do so! Also I'm wondering, how long have you guys been in treatment? Are you just starting out?
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Corey_Whelan	Hi all and welcome. I'm Corey Whelan. I know that Amanda is downloading java support so that she can log on so give her a sec.
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amanda	Hi Everyone,
Ellen	hi amanda
prospect75	hello
amanda	hello...
Corey_Whelan	ok, in the meantime, can anyone tell me if they are currently looking into acupuncture?
Ellen	is this y'all's first time? how does this work?
Corey_Whelan	anyone doing it?
Ellen	i do acupuncture now
Ellen	and have been for quite soem time
amanda	oh great.
Corey_Whelan	Do you feel that it supports your treatment?
nlaurente	I just started!
amanda	ok, great
Corey_Whelan	Hi Amanda, is that you?
Ellen	absolutely...we were traveling extensively at the end of lasy year so i could not go every week and it was hard to keep up w/herbs
puja76	I looking into it , as I have had 2 failed cycles of IVF & 2 failed IUI's
Ellen	my temps were all over the place
amanda	yes, i'm here now!
Corey_Whelan	Guys, Amanda is here! Welcome Amanda. We are so happy to have you join us. Folks, feel free to ask Amanda questions.
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amanda	why don't i start by giving a little overview
amanda	i've been treating fertility now for about 6 ears,
Corey_Whelan	great idea
Ellen	amanda - what are your thoughts on acupuncture 45 mins before and after embryo transfer
amanda	that's year...
amanda	years...
amanda	and i see that it's very effective for ivf treatments...
puja76	I'm planning to do FET in April & would like to try acqupunture
amanda	first ellen's question.
Ellen	i read a study that it increased success rate
amanda	within the day of embryo transfer is fine. 45 minutes is unnecessary.
amanda	there are few studies...
puja76	before or after embryo transfer?
Ellen	really - i was concerned that i would have to have the embryos transferred in akron and get to cleveland with 45 mins for acupuncture
nlaurente	Amanda - Theory on effects of acupuncture on infertility? How does it enhance fertility?
Ellen	i was going to bring my acupuncturist from cleveland with me to the drs in akron
Corey_Whelan	puja hang on.
amanda	before and after transfer i recommend, but the important thing is, don't stress yourself out about getting to your acupuncturist...
Ellen	that is what she said
amanda	acupuncture helps with fertility in many different ways.
amanda	the first thing is increasing blood flow to the ovaries and uterus,
amanda	any organ that receives more blood flow, will function more optimally
prospect75	corey - please let me know when i can ask my question...thanks
amanda	also, hormonal balance,
rcl29	Can accupuncture help with high FSH ?
amanda	in ivf, of course, the drugs are taking over...
Corey_Whelan	sounds like it must be great for menopause and perimenopause as well.
amanda	but we support that process to allow the drugs to do their job more effectively, kind of clear the way, if you will.
amanda	yes, it can help with high fsh.
amanda	fsh is a hormone that can be influenced by stress and acupuncture helps to relieve stress.
amanda	also, you know in strengthening your body, it helps in bringing about the best egg.
Corey_Whelan	go ahead prospect
amanda	yes, it is wonderful for perimenopause and menopause!
Ellen	do u believe acupuncture can work with iVF even if one is not doing the herbal remedies at the same time?
amanda	YES! I'm so glad you mentioned that...
rcl29	Thanks for answering questions about FSH!
prospect75	i have two questions - first, how does accupunture play with all the strong medication and second, does it help at all with a FET?
amanda	because in our practice, we do not use herbs during drug treatment...
Corey_Whelan	Hoping hang on, Prospect is next
Ellen	what does FET stand for? please forgive my naivete
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amanda	we like to use them during the period in preparation for IVF, if possible
nlaurente	Amanda - On herbal treatments, what constituents are in the herbs and side effects? How is it enhancing fertility?
puja76	Frozen Embryo Transfer
Ellen	i see thank you
Ellen	thank for the clarification on the acronyms
amanda	there are so many different formulas, it would be hard to generalize about side effects and ingredients, but herbs are a great thing! it's just best to use not during drug treatment, as we don't really know the effects of combining them.
tkins	On my last cycle, I used herbs in conjunction with acupuncture. Due to cost, I am only doing herbs this cycle. What are your thoughts on the effectiveness of herbs alone?
amanda	for ivf?
amanda	if it's just a natural cycle, it's fine.
amanda	if it's ivf, i would recommend acupuncture over herbs, especially during transfer day
prospect75	amanda - you may have missed my question - here it is again - i have two questions - first, how does accupunture play with all the strong medication and second, does it help at all with a FET?
Corey_Whelan	Amanda, prospect next please and thanks!
amanda	it definitely helps with FET, because we're just preparing your uterus for an incoming embryo,
tkins	It's IVF. I will be doing acupuncture before and after transfer.
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hoping	do you need the second accupuncture during day of transfer?
amanda	and as far as the medication, it works very well. we want to stimulate your ovaries, and help with any unnecessary side effects from the meds like bloating or discomfort
amanda	it's best to do the second transfer as well as the first
amanda	i mean the second treatment on transfer day... sorry...
prospect75	thank you - i will wait for a while for my next question
nlaurente	Amanda - Most accurate methed of of BBT measurement? How does BBT determine cycle status/conditions?
amanda	oral temperature reading is best, and i recommend the thermometer with the little light on it.
Ellen	what thermometer with thelittle light - where would someone buy that?
amanda	you want to see two levels in the chart to determine if you've ovulated - you want to see a temperature shift in the middle
amanda	I think you can get one at any duane reade
Ellen	ty
hoping	can you speak to a low sugar diet and the impact on ivf and accupuncture treatment ?
amanda	extremely important!
amanda	reducing refined sugar is very important
Corey_Whelan	sugar is the enemy
amanda	high sugar can effect insulin which can effect other hormones
amanda	also, high sugar diets cause alot of inflammation which isn't good for overall cell structure, etc.
hoping	what about dairy?
amanda	sugar is so the enemy
prospect75	amanda - one more question...are most accupuncturists equipped/ trained to treat IVF treatments or is it a speciality. If not, how does one go about finding someone who would be suitable to get this treatment.
Corey_Whelan	Particularly if you have pcos or endo
amanda	dairy, too - it causes alot of mucus - not for all patients... that can be determined by your acupuncturist
amanda	just ask the acupuncturist if they do alot of fertility work. alot do, these days, and most practitioners will tell you honestly about their experience... it helps to get a referral from someone you know and trust
Ellen	corey you seem to be leading this - please let me know when i may ask anotehr question
Corey_Whelan	oh please, go ahead
hoping	i haven't been dx with pcos, but am wondering if that is why the caution agains sugar and dairy?
Corey_Whelan	don't wait for me. If the traffic gets too intense I'll let ya'll know
amanda	pretty much as i explained above, as those substances influence inflammation and hormone response
nlaurente	Amanda - We just began treatment and BBT is at high 97s, what BBT should be expected for a normal response?
amanda	by the way, anyone who still has specific questions can contact me later privately for further explanation...
Ellen	as i have gotten older i have noticed that my cm has changed - i remember when i was young egg wuite quality cm hanging down after urinating (not to be gross to y'all). a si have gotten older while it is creamy i do not have that egg-white like quality - how do i get it back?
Corey_Whelan	hoping, sugar increases your insulin levels, creating insulin resistance, which in turn stims you ovaries and entire metabollic system to produce more testosterone. That creates the cysts on your ovaries and eliminates to a great extent or completely, ovulation
amanda	everyone has a different normal as far as BBT - it's all about the change from low to high, that's the issue... in the middle of the cycle...
mobriody	what proof is there that acupuncture helps?
amanda	Taking Charge of Your Fertility - the best book ever...
Ellen	very good book and software is useful - use the software daily and refer to book often
amanda	sometimes yin tonification herbs are the typical way acupuncturists approach the mucous question...
amanda	also, gustfan (sp)
puja76	Amanda - I have Endo - you think stopping sugar & dairy would help & in what way - pain or fertility?
Ellen	mobriody - i can tell you about my experience with acupuncture and how when i stopped due to a hectic holiday travel schedule my temps were all over the place
amanda	the common ingredient in cough syrup helps to increase mucous production
amanda	avoid any decongestants that dry up cervical mucous
amanda	yes there is proof re: acupucnture - many studies - see our site for some of them:
amanda	www.nycacupuncture.com
Ellen	what ingredient is in cough meds - cna yout ake it without the cough meds
amanda	stopping sugar is always helpful for endo as well as everyone else.
Ellen	i had surgery recently and had a lot of drugs pumped in - does that affect fertility?
Corey_Whelan	mobriody, most re's believe today that acupuncture supports their efforts. It is very common.
amanda	temps tend to be affected by stress and travel.
amanda	what kind of surgery and what kind of drugs?
Ellen	infection in my leg - 3 surgeries in a week and lung surgery for a collapsed lung
amanda	ouch, ellen , you poor thing!
Ellen	as for drugs, general anthes., morphine, vicodin
amanda	yeah, you need to detox...
amanda	and also the trauma in the body needs to settle.
Ellen	thanks - i am much better - luckily it all came at one time so i got it all over with
amanda	relaxation, meditation, eating very clean is important now
nlaurente	Amanda - BBT shut up to 99.5F, is this a normal ovulation or is this indicative of something else noting that eveyone has a different range?
Corey_Whelan	Ellen, I know it's hard to take a break! But sometimes you have to listen to the needs of your body
Ellen	thanks
amanda	ovulation is usually a .4 to .6 range of a jump
hoping	can you talk about the pulse that is taken with accupuncture and what it means?
Ellen	we did take a break after the surgeries - probably a good 6 to 9 months
amanda	the pulse gives us alot of info...
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amanda	ellen, then you are probably ok to start again... are you feeling better now?
amanda	back to the pulse question...
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amanda	it gives us info re: the integrity of the organs and how they're functioning...
Corey_Whelan	welcome sunny
amanda	if any fluids are out of balance, like blood... we can find out..
amanda	tells us the state of the hormones...
Ellen	i feel great - still get some pain now and then and take a pain pill occasionally and was hopin that would not affect it
hoping	if it was very racy?
amanda	ellen, one pill once in a while shouldn't hurt.
Ellen	phew
amanda	sometimes advil (NSAID's) can effct ovulation, though, so try to avoid them around that time.
Ellen	u get paranoid that averyhting is the reason you are not pg
nlaurente	Amanda - What other tangible responses from acu and herbal?
amanda	nlaurente, other than hormone responses, blood flow and increased mood and more relaxation?
amanda	those are the big things, and all pretty good...
amanda	we do our best to maximize your own body's capabilities...
amanda	hoping... what is your question re: racy pulse?
prospect75	amanda - thank you for your time...
hoping	sorry, what does it mean?
amanda	racy pulse means HEAT!
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amanda	generally we want a balance of hot and cold in the body,
amanda	and if one is over active, then it causes imbalances...
amanda	excess heat is something we can address
amanda	stress seems to be a common component for every patient, regardless of their specific presentation of symptoms...
amanda	if we can address that, many things can fall into place...
amanda	sometimes the two week waiting period after transfer can be especially trying...
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amanda	i recommend meditation and just allowing it to be whatever it will be...
amanda	easier said than done, i know...
nlaurente	Amanda - I am currently undergoing treatment and want to increase chances of success with acu and herbal, any other suggestions?
amanda	are you doing ivf? or what other kind of western medical treatment, nlaurente?
nlaurente	IVF
amanda	ok, gentle yoga is good, but GRANDMA yoga, no BIKRAM...
amanda	overdoing exercise can be a big problem...
hoping	does Accup. more than once a week during the stim cycle help?
amanda	hoping... yes. it depends on how you're stimming, but overall once or twice a week is good.
jneencruz	I have done ivf and am now on a little break before starting up again, I have unexplained secondary inferility, are there any herbals out there that you would recommend.
Ellen	can we go back to the exercise issue
amanda	increase treatments if you have any side effects from meds - it can really help...
amanda	you have to be evaluated for what herbs are right for you... it's competely individualized, based on your presentation...
jneencruz	thank you
amanda	you might want to do one or two cycles of herbs and acupuncture in preparation for another try..
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amanda	back to exercise...
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amanda	in chinese medicine, we believe we have a finite amount of blood, which is important for conception...
amanda	and when you overexercise, you basically drain yourself of blood.
Ellen	i do yoga 4 fertility as well as run and lift weights - what is and is not good exercise during this time of trying to conceive
amanda	the blood goes to the muscles instead of the pelvis, where it is needed to energize the uterus and ovaries...
amanda	ellen, i would recommend no running and moderate weight lifting - light weights only
amanda	but the yoga is great
Ellen	what about the yoga 4 fertility dvd - are you familiar with it?
amanda	no... but i'm familiar with yoga for fertility classes in the city, i'm sure it's similar - usually a gentle pelvis opening style of yoga...
Ellen	yes
amanda	Good!
Ellen	unfotunately not in city where everything is right out the door so do a lot at home
amanda	that's good! better even, cuz you're not stressing about getting there...
Ellen	at least one thing does not cause stress in my life
amanda	the effects of stress are greatly underestimated, i'm sorry to say...
Ellen	guess i picked the wrong job
amanda	it just makes everything harder - physically, emotionally, spiritually...
amanda	sorry there are no needles for that...
Ellen	win the lottery
nlaurente	Amanda – based on your experience with women undergoing treatment in their mid forties, what kind of success rates are you seeing?
hoping	I wish i could feel as relaxed as i do after accup. tx, all the time. any suggestions?
Corey_Whelan	Ellen, the Brenda Strong DVD is fantastic, yoga for fertility. Is that the one youmean?
amanda	i'm seeing a little more than 50% success rate...
Ellen	yes, corey that is the dvd and it is wonderful - i tend to fall asleep at the end of it
amanda	hoping... meditation, yoga, of course... but even taking a few minutes to just lie still like you do during acup. treatment, is helpful...
hoping	thanks so much amanda and corey!
amanda	bye!
amanda	that is, if you're leaving...
amanda	don't mean to kick you out...
amanda	how many of you already get acupuncture?
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nlaurente	I am currently in treatment, twice a week.
amanda	Great!
rcl29	I just made my first appt. Have not started yet
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monjord	will this help someone with low ovarian reserve?
amanda	nice that you've started...
Corey_Whelan	Hi Kay and Monjord. Folks, you're all amazing and I want you to know we've got about ten minutes left
amanda	monjord, yes, it can help, it's just more challenging...
amanda	but if the body is functioning at its best, then you will see that good egg come up...
monjord	oh..well, how do u like it?
nlaurente	Amanda - I live in Orange County California, do you see any better succes rate in different parts of the country?
amanda	never tracked it geographically...
amanda	but that is so interesting to think about...
monjord	that is an interesting question
amanda	i know there are good acupuncture schools in ca, so you've got well trained people out there.
monjord	i have been wanting to try it but wasn't sure it would help me
amanda	also, boston has a good acupuncture school... the oldest one in the country...
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amanda	yes, it will help... it will just give you better odds, if you know what i mean?
amanda	also, it will at the very least make you feel better, calmer, during the process..
monjord	that sounds so refreshing!!! lol
amanda	during treatment, it stimulates the release of endorphins, and that makes you feel as though you've just had a good run or a nice massage...
amanda	that is, the runner's high, without all that running!
amanda	cuz we really don't want you to run...
amanda
monjord	ahahaha
amanda	keep it light...
monjord	how long have you been doing it?
hoping	swimming?
monjord	no, accupture
amanda	i've been practicing acupuncture for six years...
amanda	swimming is ok if it's gentle,
monjord	oh, can u tell me more about the medicines that a person is given? are they tailored for that person and their problem?
amanda	and not too many laps, and the water shouldn't be too cold, cuz it will create "cold in the womb" which is not desirable...
monjord	cold in the womb? i have never heard of such a thing.
amanda	yes, chinese herbal formulas are completely individualized, depending not just on fertility, but on all of your other symptoms and issues.
amanda	there are some classic formulas that are used for particular patterns but usually they are adapted for the individual as well...
amanda	cold in the womg is just an energetic description for what is going on in the body... it's not a "condition" or anything like that...
monjord	oh!
amanda	acupuncturist speak...
monjord	i was told that the teas can be a bit yucky, but they work
Corey_Whelan	Amanda, why don't you give the address and telephone number of your practice?
Corey_Whelan	because we only have about two minutes left folks
amanda	herbal teas are super yucky, but are great, and we also use tinctures and tablet form...
Corey_Whelan	And I want to take this opportunity to thank Amanda and Debra and all of you SO MUCH for being here tonight. Amanda, you were amazing.
monjord	thanks for all the great information
amanda	we are located at 1841 Broadway, on 60th st. just off broadway... 212-489-5038
Corey_Whelan	Everyone's questions help to move all of us forward
nlaurente	Thank you so much!!
amanda	please, call anytime or e-mail me at acupointnyc@gmail.com
amanda	we are turning point acupuncture...
amanda	thank all of you, too for all of your questions!
Corey_Whelan	Our chat is officially over. I'm sorry to say goodbye!!!! Be well everyone and the BEST OF LUCK to all of you. so much!!!
amanda	Thanks Corey!!!!!!!!!!!
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Corey_Whelan	my pleasure
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Ellen	thank you, amanda
rcl29	Thanks Amanda..very informative
amanda	you're welcome!!
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