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Adoption: Ask the Experts

October 23, 2007 - Tuesday
1:19 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers: Carolyn Berger CSW and Aaron Britvan, Esq.

Categories
Adoption • International Adoption


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Corey_Whelan Welcome everyone to tonight's chat. Hi Mr. Britvan! I see that you're an early bird. Tonight's chat is an Ask The Expert chat - our topic this evening - domestic adoption. I am Corey Whelan, The AFA's Director of Development and your chat moderator this evening.
Corey_Whelan Tonight we are very lucky to have two special guest speakers - Aaron Britvan, Esq., one of the most renowned adoption attorneys in the US today. Mr. Britvan is based on Long Island, NY. And our other speaker is Carolyn Berger, LCSW. Ms. Berger is a recognized voice on all aspects of adoption. She is the Adoption Coordinator for The AFA as well as our Chair Emeritus. Ms. Berger is also a mom both through biological means as well as adoption, as is Mr. Britvan.
Corey_Whelan Welcome Alice. Our chat does not officially start for 7 minutes, but do feel free to ask an early question if you choose to.
abritvan Standing by for the count down!
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Corey_Whelan Welcome hmzaiter and frances! Please feel free to post your questions on domestic adoption for Aarton Britvan, Esq.
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Corey_Whelan Welcome Tistum
hmzaiter How long does the process normally take?
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abritvan The process on average with due dilegence can average 9 months to a year
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hmzaiter Does that include having the child placed in your care?
abritvan Yes
tistum What are your thoughts on using a social services agency?
frances1 I hate to admit this, but I am afraid to adopt. If only I knew the health history of the mother during her pregnancy, I wouldn't be so afraid. My fear is of the mother drinking alcohol or using drugs during her pregnancy.
abritvan My thoughts on using a social services agency is that you need to be careful because in many cases - a large deal of money maybe required to be advanced before a child is born and in many cases the funds can be lost in the end. You must read the fine print on the Agency contracts very carefully but it can be done.
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sfhscott Frances1, I have the same fear. I hear rumors that US adoptions have a high rate of that. Is this true?
abritvan Frances1 - please note that in MOST all cases - you will obtain the Physical / medical reports from the treating OBGYN and you will also get as much as possible the gentic background info, HIV testing and drug testing.
hmzaiter This that even with a closed adoption?
abritvan Sfhscott - there are certainly many cases where that is so BUT what you are looking for is a good situation and they do become available.
hmzaiter Sorry, Is that
Karen i am new is social service the same as an agenency
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sfhscott This might be too broad a question for this forum, but what is the best wayt o go about finding a good situation?
abritvan Hmzaiter - Yes - even with a closed adoption , you will get non-identifying information on the birth parent(s)
abritvan Karen - social services is a goverment agency otherwise there are private agencies
hmzaiter Is that something that is new? I am adopted, and 26, and I have no medical history from my birth parents.
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abritvan Sfhscott - the best way to find a situation is through advertising in varies forms I.E. word of mouth, internet and believe or not - the most succesful is newspaper advertising which has been going on for the past 25 years and accounts for 80% of the successes
Corey_Whelan Hi everyone, just spoke to our second speaker, Carolyn Berger. She is on her way!
Karen thank you so safer with a private agenency
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abritvan Karen - not necessarily SO - they are the most costly.
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sfhscott Is there an average cost for an adoption?
abritvan hmzaiter - Yes relatively new because it is now reconized that having genetic history is very important to the adoptee
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hmzaiter That is great.
abritvan Sfhscott - in Private Domestic Adoption - the average hard cost to the adoption is $11,000.00 - $15,000.00 and then the cost of advertising which is not necessarily inexpensive
sfhscott FYI for those attending - I just learned my insurance policy pays $3500 toward the cost of adoption, and many plans have similar policies
buckeye what is the difference between a closed and open adoption?
carolynb In a closed adoption there is no direct contact with birth parents, while in an open adoption there is contact with birth parents.
Corey_Whelan Welcome Ms. Berger!
Karen should i go with a home study before i look for a agenency
hmzaiter Is it harder to find a closed adoption?
abritvan Sfhscott b- thet is great - also many companies that are offering adoption benefits and less also not forget the income tax credit (dollar for dollar) I.E. Pfizer offers their employee $10,000.00 (benefit) toward their adoption
carolynb Thanks, Corey!
carolynb hmzaiter, these days most adoptions are open.
buckeye in open adoptions is there a minimum "amount" of required contact? and is are these expectations outlined in a legal document or is this informal?
carolynb buckeye, each adoption is different. It's up to birth parents and adoptive parents to make an agreement. In some states such an agrreement is legally enforceable.
abritvan hmzaiter - An open adoption does not mean physical contact. The fact that you may speak to a potential Birth Mother through an ad is in itself considered a form of open adoption. If you go to view my web site ast www.aaronbritvan.com - their is an article about open adoption -
buckeye thank you for the reference!
abritvan If not, please contact me and I will send you a copy of the article
hmzaiter Thank you. I always thought of it as sharing letters and pictures through the years.
carolynb hmzaiter, it can be a wonderful thing. Your child then really understands where he/she came from and why he/she was adopted.
abritvan Hmzaiter - that is another form of open adoption. There are different degrees of "Openess" and it is usually established between the birth parent(s) and adoptive parents. Actual Physical contact post placement is not the norm today.
hmzaiter Having been adopted myself, I can see that being so.
carolynb hmzaiter, you will be coming to adoption with very valuable experience then!
hmzaiter Will it help me any in the process? Meaning will it help our chances?
carolynb hmzaiter, it could help you in your search for a pregnant woman who plans to place her child for adoption.
Karen i am sorry but i just need to know should i start with a home study then look for a adgenency
buckeye how difficult is it to adopt a baby who is of the same ethnic background (i.e Caucasion, African American, Asian, etc.)? how difficult is it to adopt a newborn?
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abritvan Karen - You look for an agency first because the agency arranges the home study
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Karen thank you
dvig sorry I'm late!
abritvan Buckeye - all ethnic backgrounds are available and in private domestic adoption you are usually adopting a newborn , taking custody right from the hospital
hmzaiter Do most adoptions happen with both sets of parents in the same state?
abritvan hmzaiter - NO - it can be from anyone of a number of states
hmzaiter Does that make it more difficult?
abritvan Dvig - Welcome
dvig thank you
sfhscott if the birth parents are from a different state, do the adopting parents have to retain legal counsel in both states? their home state?
abritvan hmzaiter - no , it is not more difficult
buckeye how long (months or years) is the adoption process - beginning of process to taking home baby?
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abritvan sfhscott - No, the birth parent(s) has to have their own attorney in their state and you in your state.
buckeye i have friends who are residents of Ohio and adopted a baby from Indiana and the husband had to live there for a few weeks.
abritvan Buckeye - 9 months to a year on average
carolynb buckeye, an adoption can happen very, very quickly or it can take up to 3 years. A lot depends on how much advertising you are able to do.
abritvan buckeye - It is usually not that long
dvig I started advertising in Feb 07 and still nothing
frances1 I am confused. If you go thru an attorney what "type" of adoption is this considered to be?
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carolynb dvg, are you getting many calls from pregnant women? That is key.
buckeye so you advertise to be selected by the birth mother or parents and then "screen/interview" you and select a family?
abritvan Dvig - If that means you have not even gotten 1 response - there is a possibilty that something could be wrong - ad wording? places you are advertising in? papers? and the amount of advertising you are doing
dvig Many calls-but it appears to be so 'competitive' now a days
buckeye that sounds kind of crazy but good for the birth parents since they can be very selective!
dvig If you advertise on line there are over 350 couples! makes it more difficult
abritvan Frances1 - If you go through an attorney it is called PRIVATE DOMESTIC ADOPTION and it is premitted in most states except pure agency states such as MA, CT, DE, CO
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abritvan Dvig - I am glad that you have gotten calls but you will get the right one - it always happens!
sara120 how difficult is it for a single woman to go through domestic adoption. I know most birth mothers want a child to go to a two family home - but have you seen a lot of success for single women
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sfhscott so in private adoptions, does any portion of the cost of the adoption go to the birth parents?
buckeye what advice do you have for couples considering domestic adoption?
dvig thank you for the support-sometimes it can be frustrating
frances1 What are the pros and cons of a private domestic adoption.
abritvan Buckeye - Birth Parent(s) should be selective but the selection is hopefully based upon the ability of an adopting family to care for their child
carolynb sara 129, many singles have successfully adopted independently!
Karen who helps you to set you up to advertise
abritvan Sfhscott - depending on your state law - the birth parent(s) maybe entitled to payment of certain lawful expenses. That should be checked by looking into the laws of your state.
Karen like i said i am very new kid of clueless looking for information
hmzaiter How do you go about finding an adoption attorney?
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luna is it possible to adopt through child welfare services and if so do you need your own legal representation
sara120 I am just beginning to look into this as I have spent the last 3 years going throught fertility treatment and have just been told I have no hope of getting pregnant - It gives me hope to hear single women adopting.
abritvan Buckeye - That if you follow a straight legal path , do not get involved with heavy expenses, evaluate the birth mother(s) intent - there is no reason that you should not ultimately succeed
carolynb frances1, independent adoption allows potential birth parents and adoptive parents direct contact. Your attorney will screen potential birth parents but you are more in charge than when using an adoption agency. Some people, however, like using an agency because they can provide additional support.
dvig getting to back Sfhscott-if a pregnancy is verified, and you offer $$ support to a birthparent, and then in the end the adoption doesn't happen (BM changes mind) do we have any right for the $$ back?
dvig Sara120-there IS hope!!
abritvan hmzaiter - to find an attorney and get good quality refrences - you may consider looking into a local adoption support group and get feed back from couple(s) who have adopted.
delgaucho I understand that some expenses of the birthparents are expected to be paid by the adopting family during the pregnancy. What is the real risk of being emotionally and financially invested and have the adoption fall through?
dvig similar to my question...
carolynb dvg, no you don't have the right to get the money back. Any money you provide to potential birth parents must be approved by your lawyer and must come from your lawyer. Typically, you have an escrow account with your lawyer for this purpose.
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abritvan Dvig - the chances of getting any money back is remote. Thus, you must be extremly careful and avoid those seeking to place a child mearly on the basis of finances. You should have an attorney representing you from the start that can evaluate the situation and is an adoption specialist
frances1 If you use an attorney, I assume the attorney does the advertising. However, could you advertise too?
hmzaiter Do you know of any online resources to find local adoption groups in my state?
dvig I do-thank you
abritvan Frances1 - whether an attorney does the advertising - is dependent upon state law. I.E.- in New York you will be guided but the attorney cannot do the actual advertising.
abritvan hmzaiter - what state do you reside in?
hmzaiter Maryland
frances1 I live in Florida. How do you find a reputable adoption agency in your state? What is you find a birth mother thru your church then do you go to an attorney for strictly the paperwork?
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abritvan hmzaiter- you may consider doing a google search on adoption support groups in Maryland and see if they have one in your area
Karen i too asked how do you go about advertising
abritvan Frances1 - In Florida, it could be expensive in as much as Florida law permits the payment of Birth Mother expenses from the inception of the pregnancy. New York and other states are more restrictive
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dvig Do you think its better to advertise 'on line' or in newspapers? Not having much luck lately w/ the newspapers
carolynb frances i: To find out about agencies, check Adoptive Families Magazine's Adoption Guide online. Ask for referrals from people who have adopted already, and check out adoption agencies at local adoption conferences.
sfhscott are the arrangements for pregnancy expenses similar for international adoptions?
frances1 The attorney I contacted said it would cots me approximately $35,000. I am from CT and this seems to be so different there. You have been very helpful to me. Thank you.
abritvan Dvig - the newspapers are still the most succesful and online sometimes generates crank calls and emails but by being selective and getting through the downside - YOU will succeed!
dvig thank you again
carolynb sfhscott, in international adoption the baby is typically placed in an orphanage after birth. So no, in international you don't pay for pregnancy expenses.
abritvan sfhscott - No - but the overall expense in an Internation Adoption is generally more expensive. If you are looking into International be aware that there have been some recent changes in China, Guatemala - is noted by the State Department to stay away
luna any advice for those who are willing to adopt an older child (0-5) or a sibling group? Looking for resources
dvig My neighbors recently adopted from Russia through an agency. They stayed there for 5 weeks!
abritvan Frances 1 - In CT - you must use an agency and that in itself can bring up the cost of an adoption
carolynb sfhsott, yes you can get info from the State Dept. website and also the website jcics.org
abritvan Luna - An older child maybe adopted through the foster care system but most Domestic Adoptions involve newborns
dvig WHY do the states have different adoption laws?
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Corey_Whelan great question dvig
sfhscott it sounds like it is much easier to adopt a newborn in domestic adoptions? it this right?
carolynb luna, you may well want to look into foster care then. You can contact your state dept. of social services or look into the website www.adoptUskids.org
dvig ::rolleyes
sara120 so if I am interested in adoption, is the first step to work through a lawyer
abritvan sfsscott - the answer is YES
carolynb sfhscott, yes, if you want to adopt an infant you want to adopt domestically. Children adopted internationally are older.
alice my friend just adopted from Russia and she had to go back 2 times for 2-3 weeks at a time. It wasn't easy and more expensive than she expected. she was an older child
abritvan Dvig - It is just the way it is - there was an attempt to create uniform adoption laws but to do so would require the approval of all 50 states and that is a pretty impossible task!
luna Thank you.
dvig sfsscott-I believe from some countries (IE Russia) it's almost impossible to get a newborn. In China-you're chances are slim to get a boy.
abritvan Sara120: If you are interested in any adoption - it is advisable to consult with an adoption attorney for guidance or to review an agency contract
carolynb sara130, you want to contact a lawyer for domestic independent adoption or an agency. Some states are "agency" states, ie. CT, MA, DE
alice I have another friend who adopted a newborn through an attorney in New York, but, paid over 30k
dvig so, you follow the state laws that you live in for advertising, but follow the birthmother state laws for the actual adoption? ::wacko
abritvan Alice - if that was the fee without the cost of advertising - I would be concerned
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sara120 what is the average cost of a domestic adoption?
carolynb dvg, when you adopt internationally you are generally going to be bringing home a baby who is 1 year old or older. Right now international adoption is challenging in China and not recommended in Guatemala.
alice yes, it was high, but, the baby was given to him from the hospital.
abritvan Dvig - NO - when a birth mother is in another state you follow certain rules of each state but you are always able to utilize the laws of your state for the actual adoption
alice He said it was worth it .
dvig I get so frustrated that after ALL we've been through already (mental, emotional of infertility), we STILL have to pay $$$ for adoption. Life is hard and unfair sometimes.
abritvan Sara120: as we mentioned before - the hard cost of an adoption is $11,000.00 to $15,000.00
dvig ::mad
Karen is there a age limit for different states to adopt
sfhscott dvig - we've been ttc for 2 1/2 years - I understand!! Hang in there, though - I really believe that it all works itself out. We'll get there!
abritvan Alice - most all babies are received at the hospital and all children are priceless but $30,000.00 is still a lot of money
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carolynb dvig, bingo! You are so right! I went through infertility and adoption, and I found this to be true. However, there is nothing more wonderful than bringing home your baby!!!
sara120 thank you for the info - I see you are located in Long Island and thats where I live so i think you will be hearing from me soon
alice I agree, I can not afford anything else after all my IVF treatment.
carolynb alice, you may want to explore adopting through foster care then. Many people have done so successfully.
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Karen age limit for domestic adoption?
abritvan Karen - not usually with Private Domestic Adoption - Agencies may create their own regulations. However, in most cases those seeking to adopt must be state certified or approved by the court as qualified .
dvig What rights do birthfathers have if they are here in the US illegally?
abritvan Dvig - hang in there - we see it happen everyday
alice Not sure my husband would go that route. Adoption was hard enough for him to hear.
hmzaiter Thank you for all the information! Goodnight!
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Corey_Whelan folks, we have just under ten minutes left to our chat.
abritvan DVIG - depends on the law of the state where the adoption takes place - that is in regard to birth fathers - generally - You know sometimes illegal aliens may seek to avoid any contact with the court
carolynb alice, it is rare for each member of a couple to be ready for adoption at the same time, and it's so important that you both be "on board." Any chance you could get your husband to attend an adoption workshop or conference?
Karen how can i print out tonights session
dvig So-then what happens if birthfather is MIA?
alice Carolyn, I am working on that. Great idea.
sfhscott Alice - I am the one in the relationship who is reluctant to adopt - my husbans is really gung ho - after participating in this chat, I'm much more open, so I agree w/ carolyn, if he's willing to go to an informational seminar it might really help alleviate any fears he has.
alice Carolyn, he is more hopeful now that he has seen it done succuessfully.
Corey_Whelan Karen, the transcripts for the chats go up approx. one week after it takes place. In addition, before you log off, if you wish to review any of the inforrmation, just click the action button, above left.
abritvan DVIG - In some cases he has no rights ( as would be the case in New York) some states may require a " Publication" against a " John Doe"
carolynb I want to congratulate Aaron Britvan on recently receiving the Angel in Adoption award from the U.S. Congress!
sfhscott Congrats!!
sara120 congratulations
Corey_Whelan Congratulations!!!! That is wonderful news.
alice congrats
Karen congrats
sfhscott Aaron, do you handle adoptions outside of new york?
dvig OK-another confusion question...BM is MARRIED, but birthfather is someone else. Who needs to be involved (BF or husband of BM)? ::blink
abritvan Thank You Carolyn and all of you in the chat room this evening for your congrats.
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dvig CONGRATS!!! ::tongue
abritvan sfhscott - It depends but I am certainly happy to speak to all out of towners by telephone at the very least
sfhscott Thanks to both Aaron and Carolyn, this has be very helpful.
abritvan Dvig - The husband is the "Presumed" father and is involved - the birth father depends on his acts of resposibilty to the child born or in utero
carolynb sfhscott, as an adoptive parent it's a pleasure to help others open the door to adoption!
abritvan sfhscott - Your welcome and the best of luck to you
dvig Oh... Thank you for everything! this has been extremely helpful!
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carolynb dvig, best of luck to you.!
abritvan Dvig - your are welcome - keep your head up - IT WILL HAPPEN!
Corey_Whelan Folks, we have a few minutes left. I want to thank our guest speakers, Carolyn Berger and Aaron Britvan so much for all of their insights this evening. Please let me know what state you are in when you log off and please, consider making a personal contribution to support the chat series to The AFA. Thanks so much to all of you and good night!!!! And BEST OF LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!
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sara120 thanks again for the info - Look foward to speaking with you soon
alice New York
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abritvan on a final note - all those seeking to adopt, it takes a bit of effort but few things worth having don't require work
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carolynb good night all! And best of luck to you! If you persevere, you WILL bring your baby home!
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abritvan It has been a great evening for me and it will be even greater if even one person or couple benefits - GODD LUCK
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abritvan Good Night and good luck
buckeye Ohio - thank you very much!
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chanci Hello?
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