images
Sponsors

Ferring Pharmaceuticals, Inc. is the Presenting Sponsor of the AFA Website

Ferring Pharmaceuticals

Coping With Male Factor Infertility

September 18, 2007 - Tuesday
1:36 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers:

Categories
Acupuncture • Donor Sperm • Infertility • IVF • Male Factor


vickyrbn joined.
Corey_Whelan joined.
Corey_Whelan Hi all. I'm Corey Whelan, The AFA's Director of Development and your chat moderator tonight. Tonight's guest speaker is Bob Bamman, LCSW. Bob is an active member of The AFA, and brings insight, intelligence and compassion to the many workshops that he runs for us, both in person, on the telephone, and on line. Bob's specialized clinical training includes infertility and adoption work. He himself is an adoptive parent. We welcome him, and all of you tonight! Our chat will begin at 8 p.m.
Corey_Whelan Hi VIckyrbn!!!
SweetTooth joined.
Corey_Whelan Hi SweetTooth! Great screen name. We're waiting for Bob Bamman, who will be here shortly.
Poetrysoul83 joined.
SweetTooth Thanks Corey-Whelan. This is my first time on a chat line
Corey_Whelan Great!
Corey_Whelan Hi Poetrysoul, welcome. Bob is trying to get on
Poetrysoul83 Hi Corey
Poetrysoul83 How is everyone doing?
Corey_Whelan ready to go! Can I ask everyone what states you're from while we're waiting?
SweetTooth great! I'm excited. I'm from Texas
Corey_Whelan I'm in Brooklyn NY
Poetrysoul83 I live in Maryland but I am from the Big Apple
Corey_Whelan cool.
Corey_Whelan Is Maryland the Big Crab?
Poetrysoul83 Yes it is. I like it here.
Corey_Whelan I like it too.
Corey_Whelan So, do all of you have issues with male factor?
Poetrysoul83 I do.
Corey_Whelan It's a toughy.
Poetrysoul83 My husband was diagnosed with Sertoli Cel Only
vickyrbn I am from New York.
Corey_Whelan Who is your urologist?
Poetrysoul83 Yes it is. It's horribel to hear specially when like in our case we were only 20 and 22 when we found out.
vickyrbn Dr. Goldstein
bobbamman joined.
Poetrysoul83 At the moment we do not have one. We use to see Dr.Ratner.
bobbamman Hello folks, sorry for the delay...
Corey_Whelan Hi Bob! Welcome. Bob Bamman is here to answer your questions, so please fire away!
SweetTooth What issues do male factor include?
Poetrysoul83 Hi Bob! My name is alicia.
Poetrysoul83 My husband was diagnosed with Sertoli Cell Only? What hope is there of us conceiving a biological child?
bobbamman hi sweettooth - I would say any physical factors that affect the ability of the male to impregate the female. This can include poor morphology, antibodies, low count, etc.
vickyrbn We are two years post varicocele and still no luck. The issue seems to be borderline low morphology. What hope is there besides IVF with ICSI? Would IUI's be worth it? Acupuncture? Diet?
Poetrysoul83 He has already had a biopsy of his rt testicle. Would the urologist had told us what type of Sertoli Cell he has? I read something about there being two types a mixed and something else.
bobbamman However, please be reminded that I am a clinical social worker, not an MD. So medically oriented questions shoud wait until you can address a doctor. I would be happy to speak on the topic of dealing with the emotional aspects of male factor infertility - from the male, female, and couple's perspective.
Corey_Whelan Vicky, ICSI was made specifically for cases like yours.
SweetTooth my husband had a vasectomy reversal 18 months out. His total effective count currently is at .06 million/cc and at best 2.4 million/cc, any chance of concieving naturally?
bobbamman Right on, Corey
brjl joined.
Corey_Whelan Welcome, brjl.
Poetrysoul83 In what ways can I help my husband atleast consider donor sperm or adoption.
bobbamman sweettooth - you know, it only takes one. An MD would have to call the percentage on this one. Chances would be increased with IUI, and very much moreso with ICSI (again, lay knowledge here)..
vickyrbn Bob, what suggestions do you have for a wife dealing with male factor? How to deal with anger, resentment, regret, etc.
Corey_Whelan Poetry, that is a great question
Corey_Whelan Vicky, you too.
Poetrysoul83 He is all wrapped up in the fact that he's legacy will not continue and I understand but at the same time why should'nt my continue if it can.
bobbamman Hi Poetry - it is a matter of communicating your interest in exploring alternative family building options, knowing that partners are never in the same place at the same time. It may take him some time to come around and be ready to explore these other options. How is handling his infertiltiy, emotionally?
Corey_Whelan Alicia, so are you leaning towards donor and not adoption?
brjl my husband has two children from his previous marriage. He is convinced that he is not the problem. He doesn't want to see a doctor. How do i convince him that it doesn't matter if he has kids...it can happen at any time.
Poetrysoul83 Bob: he seems to be fine. Is like his emotional state depends on mine. If I start getting sad about not having a child than he gets that way. As long as I'm fine his fine.
bobbamman Poetry - This is such a common scenario, and completely understandable. It sounds like he needs time to digest the genetic loss that this represents for him. Usually, male or female, once one moves through this piece of emotional work they are ready to look simply at, "how do we become parents?" - and consider the other options, including donor.
Poetrysoul83 Corey: I would adopt or donor. I mean both choices seem really hard to me just because I don't know how I would approach it with my child. Should I tell him/her or not?
bobbamman Hi Bril - Yes, just the IDEA that he might be the problem is scary. How long have you been trying to conceive?
brjl two years
Poetrysoul83 My husband does not even want to consider donor sperm. When he was first diagnosed our world flipped up side down. He started saying that he did not want to own a house because he would not have who to leave it to.
brjl i have one blocked tube but the doctor insisted that i should be fine with the other
brjl its been two years
brjl and no child
brjl i am 28
brjl he is 39
woodigit joined.
Poetrysoul83 We've been trying to conceive for 6 years now. But we are in a better place. We are even considering living childless.
vickyrbn Bob, any advice on how a wife can deal with male infertility? There is so little in terms of support and resources "out there" in the media about male issues.
Poetrysoul83 Focusing on other things than being parents. I learned that with this whole infertility journey you have to grief and cry. We have all right to. We are mourning the loss of the child we (according to doctors) have very minimal possiblity to have.
bobbamman Poetry - Not having shared genetic connection to the childj is a difficult one to get over. Professional counseling is often useful and neccessary to explore what that would mean for each partner. Adoption can be the answer, if you are willing to forgo the pregnancy experience and genetic connection. On telling - telling is very much the norm in adoption. In donor conception, the professional thinking is moving strongly in the direction of telling. Children can handle the truth - it's more scary for the parents!
bobbamman Hi Vickyrn - So true. Historically, childbearing and family has been seen as the woman's province, as if the men don't have any thoughts or feelings on the issue! We do! How is communication going between you? Communication is key...
vickyrbn Communication is good for the most part. But, I keep a lot of my feelings inside because I know he is blaming himself terribly for my and our sorrow. The deep sorrow has not gone away after 3 years of trying. He is also not supportive of IVF but is very supportive of adoption.
bobbamman Poetry - Yes, there is so much loss in this. I admire your courage and that of your husband. Through the tears the right answer will come for you.
vickyrbn But, I am now still dealing with the fact that I may never experience pregnancy and natural motherhood.
Poetrysoul83 Vicky: I understand what you mean.
bobbamman Vickyrbn - can I ask what feelings you are keeping inside?
bobbamman Just answered my question...
vickyrbn My feelings of anger towards him. I blamed his stressful lifestyle and anxious temperment for a long time. Now, I think I just blame his poor morphology.
vickyrbn I probably also blame fate -- how could this have happened to us?
Poetrysoul83 I also use to ask Why us?
Poetrysoul83 It's so hard. But I feel although infertility is something we will have to live with and always be reminded of, time makes it better. I feel like it's made my relationship with my husband even stronger. We have a bigger connection now more than ever.
vickyrbn Hi Corey, sorry to interrupt - there seems to be a lag. Should I be doing anything different? My first time on this chat.
bobbamman So much loss of control in infertility. Why? Who to blame? This is where one learns to give in to one's personal "higher power" - be it spiritual faith, philosophical paradigm, or the idea of destiny. Life throws us curves that no amout of planning can avoid. The process of navigating that is tough...
mlcirino joined.
mlcirino h
bobbamman Underneath blame and anger is sorrow and mourning. Reach for your personal sorrow and mourning, and blame and anger will dissipate.
Corey_Whelan Hi Micirino. Please jump in at any time.
vickyrbn Bob, can you clarify a bit further about reaching for sorrow and mourning?
Poetrysoul83 Hey Vicky I hope you do not mind but I want to recommend a book that has helped me immensley through out this journey. It is an old book and I had to order from Barnes and Noble but I think it will help you alot. It will help you cope with how you are feeling. It is called " WATER FROM THE ROCK" and it is written by Donna Gibbs, Becky Garrett and Phyllis Rabon.
bobbamman Poetry - I'm glad that you are finding your resolution in your relationship. Infertility tests marriages dramatically, and many come out the other end stronger and closer than ever - with or without a child. It can be so hard, sometimes, to keep reaching for each other throught the feelings. Good work!
vickyrbn Thanks for the book suggestion, Poetry!
Poetrysoul83 Your welcome. It is a great book.
mlcirino left.
SweetTooth left.
my2jars joined.
Corey_Whelan Hi Woodigit and My2jars, welcome to you both!
my2jars hi
bobbamman Vickyrbn - we are programmed so much in life to deal, to operate on top of our feelings, and to get the job done. It can be difficult to take the time to really feel the loss and the mourning, to give ourselves time to have the "good cry". Bleeding cleans our physical wounds, crying cleans our emotional wounds...
sfhscott joined.
brjl left.
bobbamman Thanks, poetry. I want to check it out too...
Poetrysoul83 Your welcome.
bobbamman Brjl - you still with us?
Poetrysoul83 What is the best way to deal with society and their comments? I used to get so angry. Now we are at a point where we just say we do not plan on having a child.
my2jars left.
Poetrysoul83 Which does not work because then they look at us like we are crazy. How can it be that you do not want a child? Is what we hear next.
aijia joined.
sfhscott left.
Poetrysoul83 People and family make things even harder.
sgoeden joined.
vickyrbn Yes, Poetry, I find the more modernized we have become as a society, the more things have not changed and tradition and social mores have still not caught up with real modern life.
bobbamman One finds out how insensitive some people can be - particularly disappointing with friends and family. It's important to let them know what is OK to discuss and what is not. They can not know what you have been through. "I appreciate your interest, but we are very comfortable and happy with our decision". or, "Acrtually, lot's of people have great lives childfree!"
Poetrysoul83 Vicky you said it all.
dianem joined.
bobbamman Also, find support with other childfree couples.
vickyrbn Are there any articles, resources that speak to the man's point of view and issues of male infertility?
vickyrbn Does anyone have any experience/success with acupuncture for male factor issues, i.e. morphology, counts, etc.?
aijia Just joined - don't know if anyone asked regarding the effect of vitamins on sperm count or quality. My husband has a sperm count of around 5-8 million. We've had 2 unsuccessful IVFs.
bobbamman There are none that deal specifically with the male view, male factor, etc. More and more infertilty books are being updated to include sections on the male perspective on this.
Poetrysoul83 My husband does not produce sperm so I would not be able to help you there Vicky.
Corey_Whelan Vicky, you might want to talk to Dr. Goldstein about that. I know that at Cornell in the IVF Center, there is an acupuncturist/herbalist, named Ray Chang
my2jars joined.
Poetrysoul83 Cornell is awesome. Thanks for mentioning them Corey.
Corey_Whelan Folks, I just want to let you know that we have about five minutes left.
vickyrbn Aiija, my husband had some luck with increased vitamins and royal jelly. He takes increased amount of antioxidants, i.e. CoQ10, Vit. C, E, and Folic Acid, and Selenium per our doctor's recommendation.
Poetrysoul83 I've never been there but I contacted Dr.Schlegel and he was the nicest guy. He had me mail my husbands biopsy and he emailed me his opinion. He is great.
Poetrysoul83 5 minutes got it.
vickyrbn I never got the feeling that Cornell was open to acupuncture. Is Ray Chang with Cornell or private?
my2jars Anyone here ever hear of Dr. Michael Werner?
sgoeden My husband had a sperm count of 2 million. We did research on taking vitamins. He took everything we read about that said would help. Our doctor wasn't a believer of vitamins. My husband took them for four months. His count was the same at the end of that time.
Corey_Whelan He is with Cornell still as far as I know. If you wish to get a referral I can give you several, just contact me after the chat at corey@theafa.org
Corey_Whelan Don't know Michael Werner, sorry.
Corey_Whelan What state is he in?
my2jars ok. thanks.
my2jars New York
my2jars Westchester County
Corey_Whelan What program?
Corey_Whelan oh, ok.
vickyrbn I've heard of Werner in Westchester, NY, right? I think my husband called him for a quick consult awhile ago.
Poetrysoul83 Vicky before time is up I wanted to give you my email address its: poetrysoul83@aol.com. You can email me anytime you need someone to talk to.
my2jars Thanks everyone. I came in late.
Corey_Whelan guys, while we have a minute I want to thank you all so much for all of your questions tonight and wish you all the very best of luck. And of course, thanks to Bob Bamman for all of his insight here tonight. Thank you Bob!!!!!!!
bobbamman Regarding the male view - notice that there are no guys on this chat. We feel a lot, but it can stay way deep. We count on you, our trusted spouses, to help bring us out of our isolation and talk about it. Communication is key and all of you have great insight in to this. Thank your for sharing so openly during our chat. I hope it was useful!
Poetrysoul83 Thank you Corey and Thank You Bob you guys have been awesome.
aijia I have a feeling that unlike female egg issues, male factors are usually unexplained, which makes it more frustrating. Any thoughts?
my2jars good night all
my2jars Diabetes...
bobbamman aijja - yes, unexplained can be tougher.
my2jars left.
Corey_Whelan Goodnight guys!
dianem left.
Poetrysoul83 Goodnight.
bobbamman thanks Corey. G'nighgt everyone.
aijia left.
Corey_Whelan left.
Poetrysoul83 left.
vickyrbn left.
smile joined.
smile left.
bobbamman left.
woodigit left.
sgoeden left.