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But Will I Bond with the Baby? Switching Gears from IVF to Adoption

January 29, 2008 - Tuesday
12:48 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers: Carolyn Berger

Categories
Adoption • International Adoption


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[Tue Jan 29 16:46:21 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanHi everybody and welcome to tonight's chat - switching gears from IVF to Adoption. I am so please to greet tonight's guest speaker - Carolyn Berger. LCSW. Carolyn is a former chair of the bd of the American Fertility Association and our current Adoption Coordinator. Carolyn has created her family through both biological, medical means and through adoption and she is here to share her expertise as well as her personal story with us tonight. Oh, and I'm Corey Whelan, the AFA's Director of Development and your chat moderator and I'm so happy to be here as well. Welcome!!!
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[Tue Jan 29 16:56:31 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanHi Tanya. Welcome Carolyn. Tanya, our speaker is here. Not to put you on the spot since you're first, but if you'd like to type in a question certainly do feel free.
[Tue Jan 29 16:57:28 PST 2008] carolynbIt's great to be here, Corey! I'm always glad to share what I know about adoption, whether it's my personal story or professional experience!
[Tue Jan 29 17:00:18 PST 2008] carolynbI adopted my 14-year old and gave birth to my 18-year old. I feel lucky to have had both experiences because it has shown me that bonding with a baby doesn't necessarily have to be connected to biology.
[Tue Jan 29 17:00:52 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanWow, 14 and 18. That sounds like quite an accomplishment in and of itself!
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[Tue Jan 29 17:01:07 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanHi Brenda. We're here chatting with Carolyn Berger, tonight's guest speaker
[Tue Jan 29 17:01:14 PST 2008] brendahi!
[Tue Jan 29 17:01:47 PST 2008] carolynbHi, Brenda. Are you considering adoption as a way to build your family?
[Tue Jan 29 17:01:58 PST 2008] brendayes we are
[Tue Jan 29 17:02:51 PST 2008] carolynbThat's exciting. Where are you in your decision-making about adoption?
[Tue Jan 29 17:03:38 PST 2008] brendaI have looked into several different agencies and had information sent to us- we have an orientation scheduled for February. So we are in the very begininng stages.
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[Tue Jan 29 17:04:25 PST 2008] carolynbDo you know whether you want to adopt domestically or internationally?
[Tue Jan 29 17:04:53 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanHi Castie, welcome. We are chatting with Carolyn Berger about adoption. Please feel free to jump in at any point
[Tue Jan 29 17:05:01 PST 2008] brendaI would consider both, my husband however, would like to do domestically. I am worried that that will take longer though.
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[Tue Jan 29 17:06:28 PST 2008] carolynbBrenda, that might not be true. People are turning to domestic adoption more these days due to issues with international adoption right now. It has gotten harder to adopt from China for example.
[Tue Jan 29 17:06:30 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanHi Kate, welcome. Please feel free to jump in at any time.
[Tue Jan 29 17:07:09 PST 2008] brendaRight- so I have heard there are waiting lists for domestic adoptions since many people are not doing international.
[Tue Jan 29 17:07:24 PST 2008] brendaSo that is why I am worried it may take longer then usual
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[Tue Jan 29 17:08:09 PST 2008] carolynbBrenda, that may be true if you use an agency to adopt domestically, but not always true if you go the Independent route.
[Tue Jan 29 17:08:21 PST 2008] Corey_Whelanhowdy, m. welcome
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[Tue Jan 29 17:08:54 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanWell hi Shayme!!! How are you?
[Tue Jan 29 17:08:59 PST 2008] brendaOk, well like I said we are in the beginning stages and I have no idea where to even start. I didn't even know you could go the independent route.
[Tue Jan 29 17:09:12 PST 2008] shaymer01Hi Corey!
[Tue Jan 29 17:09:25 PST 2008] Corey_Whelangood to see you again.
[Tue Jan 29 17:09:55 PST 2008] shaymer01you too! and thank you!
[Tue Jan 29 17:09:56 PST 2008] carolynbBrenda, in most states you can adopt independently...which state do you live in if you don't mind my asking?
[Tue Jan 29 17:10:12 PST 2008] brendaOhio
[Tue Jan 29 17:10:36 PST 2008] brendacan you define independently?
[Tue Jan 29 17:12:10 PST 2008] carolynbI believe that you can adopt independently there, but I can check that with an adoption attorney and get back to you. When you adopt independently, you hire a lawyer who will tell you how you can advertise to find a pregnant worman who wants to place her baby. You work with this woman, who also has a lawyer, and you plan together for the adoption.
[Tue Jan 29 17:12:30 PST 2008] brendaIs this more expensive then going through an agency?
[Tue Jan 29 17:13:11 PST 2008] kateknox68Carolyn - can you tell us a bit about your experience moving from IVF to adoption? What was hardest - how did you know it was time to move on?
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[Tue Jan 29 17:13:51 PST 2008] carolynbBrenda, it depends on how much advertising you have to do, and whether you will be paying the pregnant woman's medical expenses and perhaps other expenses. It can be expensive or it can be surprisingly cheap.
[Tue Jan 29 17:14:16 PST 2008] brendaI would appreciate it if you could let me know if that is possible in Ohio.
[Tue Jan 29 17:15:03 PST 2008] carolynbkate, I knew it was time to move on when my doctor recommended ovum donation. I didn't want to go through all that, thinking that there might already be a baby "out there" who needed a mom.
[Tue Jan 29 17:15:43 PST 2008] carolynbI will talk to a lawyer tomorrow and get back to you, Brenda. Can you give me an e-mail address?
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[Tue Jan 29 17:16:24 PST 2008] brendayes thank you- its brenn44@oh.rr.com
[Tue Jan 29 17:16:28 PST 2008] carolynbOr, Brenda, you can e-mail me at cbaia@optonline.net and I will get an answer to you.
[Tue Jan 29 17:16:50 PST 2008] carolynbBrenda, I guess we're covered. I will gladly get the info to you.
[Tue Jan 29 17:16:58 PST 2008] brendaThank you!
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[Tue Jan 29 17:17:47 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanHi michcole and irishsip. Welcome. Please feel free to ask your questions
[Tue Jan 29 17:18:16 PST 2008] carolynbYou're welcome! The rules and regs in each state are different, so I often need to speak to a lawyer. If you go the independent route, you will be asking your lawyer which states you can advertise in, and which states might be best.
[Tue Jan 29 17:18:57 PST 2008] brendaDo you recommend doing independent over going through an agency?
[Tue Jan 29 17:19:19 PST 2008] carolynbTo all of you, I've got to say that I approached adoption with a lot of trepidation. I Most of us do.
[Tue Jan 29 17:20:28 PST 2008] carolynbBrenda, some of us like the hand-holding an agency can provide, others are more entrepreneurial in nature and want to do things their way. It's important to know what you and your partner need.
[Tue Jan 29 17:20:55 PST 2008] shaymer01 To[Private] brendaBrenda check this out....http://library.findlaw.com/1998/Aug/5/126426/html
[Tue Jan 29 17:20:57 PST 2008] michcoleWhat if you are ready to dive in to adoption, but your husband is not as open to it. Any suggestions on how to encourage him to learn more about it or talk to others?
[Tue Jan 29 17:22:40 PST 2008] carolynbMichcole, this is so common there's even a term for it: The "reluctant spouse." You want to be on pretty much the same page going forward as it can be a stressful process. I think the best way to get comfortable with adoption is to talk with parents who have adopted and meet their kids if that's possible.
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[Tue Jan 29 17:23:27 PST 2008] shaymer01I kind of find ovum donation more appealing, although in a lot of respects similar to adoption, due to the sense of control I would feel over the prenatal environment. Any thoughts on this?
[Tue Jan 29 17:23:38 PST 2008] irishslpAre there any trustworthy sites that you can recommend. I do know a couple of people who have adopted and really like their agency, but just in case I would like to talk with others.
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[Tue Jan 29 17:24:20 PST 2008] shaymer01 To[Private] brendaMight be outdated, but likely somewhat accurate.
[Tue Jan 29 17:24:39 PST 2008] michcoleWhat is the range on cost for international adoption?
[Tue Jan 29 17:25:12 PST 2008] carolynbshaymer01: Many people feel as you do. Yes, you do have control over the prenatal environment, plus you get to give birth! If these things are really important to you, I would look into ovum donation further. You can do that knowing that if it doesn't work out, you still have the adoption option.
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[Tue Jan 29 17:26:42 PST 2008] carolynbMichcole: Typically, you can plan on spending 25-30,000 when you adopt internationally.
[Tue Jan 29 17:27:03 PST 2008] brendaThere are tax credits though right?
[Tue Jan 29 17:27:16 PST 2008] carolynbBrenda, yes there are!
[Tue Jan 29 17:27:36 PST 2008] michcoleIs there an income stipulation to get the tax credit?
[Tue Jan 29 17:27:57 PST 2008] carolynbMichcole, I don't think there is.
[Tue Jan 29 17:28:13 PST 2008] shaymer01there should be tax credits for fertility treatments!
[Tue Jan 29 17:28:38 PST 2008] michcoleI have recently heard that Guatemala has put a "hold" on their adoptions. Do u know anything about this?
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[Tue Jan 29 17:29:24 PST 2008] carolynbirishsip, even before going to websites (there are so many), you might consider reading the Idiot's Guide to Adoption by Chris Adamec. It's a great way to start, and it lists adoptive parents groups by state as well.
[Tue Jan 29 17:29:41 PST 2008] brendai second that shaymer!
[Tue Jan 29 17:29:51 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanHi Christalp, welcome. It's been a long time, good to see you again.
[Tue Jan 29 17:30:00 PST 2008] christalpThank you
[Tue Jan 29 17:30:49 PST 2008] irishslpThanks carolynb, that book sounds right up my alley smile. Another question is the age limit. Is it true that only one has to be under 50?
[Tue Jan 29 17:31:21 PST 2008] carolynbMichcole, there has been a lot of corruption in Guatemalan adoption. They are in the process of cleaning up their act and the U.S. is working on complying with something called The Hague Treaty. Both things have to get done before we can adopt Guatemalan babies. www.jcics.org is a great place to find out, country by country, what is happening in adoption right now.
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[Tue Jan 29 17:32:59 PST 2008] carolynbIrishsip, that is true in China, which has just put tougher parameters in place. Again, www.jcics (website of The Joint Council of Int'l Children's Svcs.) is a good resource for each country's rules and regs.
[Tue Jan 29 17:33:26 PST 2008] irishslpThanks, I will check out the site.
[Tue Jan 29 17:33:56 PST 2008] shaymer01One of my main concerns with adoption, ok two of them, are loss of the prenatal environment (as previously mentioned) and obligation to stay in contact with the birth mother/parents (open adoption). Ok, no, three...I am also concerned about the mother/parents changing their mind. How did you address/get past such concerns.
[Tue Jan 29 17:34:06 PST 2008] carolynbirishsip, the Dept. of State website also has info on int'l adoption.
[Tue Jan 29 17:34:34 PST 2008] irishslpFantastic! Thanks again
[Tue Jan 29 17:36:39 PST 2008] ascsorry for joining late... I am in the middle of switching gears after 8 failed IVF treatments to considering adoption- does anyone have any suggestions of how to grieve failed IVF and move on confidently?
[Tue Jan 29 17:37:46 PST 2008] carolynbshaymer, I wrote an article called "Birthmother Fear" that you might want to check out. It's available thru our website. It's normal to worry that a birthmother will change her mind. Interestingly, the more we can relate to a birthmother the more we are likely to feel that if she does change her mind, we want to support that. Also, open adoption means many things, there are many degrees of openness, and it's something you are always working on--it's not a one-shot deal. Again, you want to come to a meeting of the minds with the birthmother you are working with. Actually talking to pregnant women who want to place their children can be an awe-inspiring experience!!
[Tue Jan 29 17:39:28 PST 2008] carolynbasc, you have certainly endured a lot. The best advice I can give here is to both allow yourself the time you need to grieve, while slowly getting to understand the world of adoption. One of the great things about adoption is you're not "under the gun" time wise.
[Tue Jan 29 17:40:05 PST 2008] brendaand it is almost a guarantee!
[Tue Jan 29 17:40:40 PST 2008] carolynbbrenda, you are so right! If you persevere, you absolutely will adopti!
[Tue Jan 29 17:40:49 PST 2008] shaymer01is your website the www.jcics above?
[Tue Jan 29 17:41:16 PST 2008] carolynbshaymer01, we're www.theafa.org
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[Tue Jan 29 17:41:58 PST 2008] christalpwhat are you thoughts on fostering to adopt?
[Tue Jan 29 17:42:23 PST 2008] shaymer01ohhhh, ok, thanks
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[Tue Jan 29 17:42:58 PST 2008] brendagood question christalp
[Tue Jan 29 17:43:00 PST 2008] carolynbchristalp, I think it's a great way to adopt! There are many children out there in the foster care system who need homes. Some are infants.
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[Tue Jan 29 17:43:15 PST 2008] brendais that less expensive?
[Tue Jan 29 17:43:33 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanChristalp, Carolyn has scheduled a chat on foster are adoption next month. Keep your eye on the email blasts to learn more.
[Tue Jan 29 17:43:47 PST 2008] Corey_Whelancare, not are. Sorry!
[Tue Jan 29 17:43:58 PST 2008] carolynbbrenda, it is extremely inexpensive. They want you out there in foster care.
[Tue Jan 29 17:44:03 PST 2008] christalpthanks Corey
[Tue Jan 29 17:44:15 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanYou're welcome.
[Tue Jan 29 17:44:38 PST 2008] ascDo you have any "red flags" that indicate you aren't ready to adopt? Or questions you should ask yourself to assess if you are ready to move on to adoption? Or good resources- sorry if you already addressed any of this!
[Tue Jan 29 17:44:46 PST 2008] carolynbTo all, many more people are now looking into foster care.
[Tue Jan 29 17:47:18 PST 2008] carolynbasc, if you feel depressed about approaching adoption, that is a red flag. Guess what, though? I approached adoption, feeling upset about this route to parenthood. BUT, as soon as I began talking with pregnant women who wanted to place their children, I got very excited about it! You don't have to be completely "resolved" to begin the adoption process.
[Tue Jan 29 17:47:35 PST 2008] shaymer01What was your adoption experience? if you don't mind sharing.
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[Tue Jan 29 17:50:03 PST 2008] carolynbshaymer01, adoptive parents love sharing their experiences! I was living on Long Island. Had advertised in some Pennysavers further out on the Island. I heard from a woman who was 7 months pregnant, then never heard from her again--until she was in labor. We scrambled to find her a lawyer and a good hospital, I was the coach while Ethan's birthmother gave birth, and we brought our son home at 3 days old. It was a wonderful experience.
[Tue Jan 29 17:50:43 PST 2008] dusandjsorry to be joining in so late
[Tue Jan 29 17:50:45 PST 2008] christalpThat is a wonderful story
[Tue Jan 29 17:51:02 PST 2008] shaymer01WOW
[Tue Jan 29 17:51:03 PST 2008] Corey_Whelanguys, we're at the ten minute mark. Just want to give you a heads up. Welcome dusandj, no need to be sorry. Please feel free to jump in at any time
[Tue Jan 29 17:51:09 PST 2008] shaymer01that is incredible!
[Tue Jan 29 17:51:46 PST 2008] ascSounds so easy! Do you recommend agency, vs. lawyer, or placing your own ads?
[Tue Jan 29 17:51:47 PST 2008] brendaSounds like the movie Juno
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[Tue Jan 29 17:52:10 PST 2008] dusandjwas going to ask same qu., asc
[Tue Jan 29 17:52:24 PST 2008] carolynbchristalp, most adoption stories have incredibly happy endings.I don't mean to be a "Pollyanna"--certainly not all adoptions work out, but the ones that do certainly feel like miracles.
[Tue Jan 29 17:53:32 PST 2008] carolynbasc, we used an independent adoption attorney. Ethan's adoption was very easy, but we did have some disappointments along the way. You have to be prepared for that.
[Tue Jan 29 17:54:21 PST 2008] dusandjhow do attorneys go about finding birth mothers?
[Tue Jan 29 17:54:34 PST 2008] ascDo you still keep in touch with Ethan's birthmother? Is that hard?
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[Tue Jan 29 17:55:22 PST 2008] carolynbdusandj, attorneys suggest places to advertise in order to find birthmothers. You actually find them! With agencies, they find the birthmothers.
[Tue Jan 29 17:56:23 PST 2008] dusandjbut i thought there was a law in my state (CA) against advertising for birthmoms on one's own?
[Tue Jan 29 17:56:24 PST 2008] carolynbasc, we have a relatively closed adoption. That was his birthmother's decision. If I had my "druthers" it would have been open.
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[Tue Jan 29 17:57:44 PST 2008] carolynbdusandj, I think you are right. An adoption attorney can answer that for you. Go to the American Academy of Adoption Attorneys website for the answer. Also, in CA, ALL adoptions are open.
[Tue Jan 29 17:58:01 PST 2008] dusandjok, thanks
[Tue Jan 29 17:58:52 PST 2008] carolynbTo all: Another great resource to answer your adoption questions is the website of Adoptive Families Magazine. They have an Adoption Guide that is supurb!
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[Tue Jan 29 17:59:30 PST 2008] shaymer01thank you!
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[Tue Jan 29 18:00:18 PST 2008] ascThanks a lot for sharing and for the info.
[Tue Jan 29 18:00:22 PST 2008] carolynbTo all: It has been a pleasure chatting with you! Please come to next month's educational session, Feb. 12th, on "Adopting Through Foster Care."
[Tue Jan 29 18:00:25 PST 2008] christalpYes, thank you for your insight into adoption. I will be looking forward to your talk next monthe
[Tue Jan 29 18:00:46 PST 2008] irishslpthank you for your help.
[Tue Jan 29 18:00:59 PST 2008] carolynbchristalp: We'll be bringing in a foster care expert, but I will be back!
[Tue Jan 29 18:01:15 PST 2008] Corey_Whelanguys, I'm so sorry that it's 9:00 and our time together is over. I want to thank you all so much for being here and asking such great questions. And thanks to you Carolyn - you are truly an inspiration!!!! Folks, for those of you who live in CA or who need a great vacation, the AFA is holding an amazing event called San Francisco Family Matters - do consider attending.
[Tue Jan 29 18:01:16 PST 2008] dusandjthanks (will transcript be avlbl soon?)
[Tue Jan 29 18:01:17 PST 2008] brendathank you- look forward to that!
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[Tue Jan 29 18:01:35 PST 2008] Corey_WhelanTranscripts will be up in a few days, keep your eye on the board.
[Tue Jan 29 18:01:45 PST 2008] Corey_Whelanthanks so much everyone and good night!!!!!
[Tue Jan 29 18:01:46 PST 2008] carolynbGoodnight, all!
[Tue Jan 29 18:01:49 PST 2008] shaymer01thks Corey!
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[Tue Jan 29 18:01:56 PST 2008] dusandjg'night
[Tue Jan 29 18:01:59 PST 2008] Corey_Whelanbe well and good luck. thanks to you too!!!!! love you all.
[Tue Jan 29 18:02:03 PST 2008] carolynbCorey, thanks!
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