Complementary Alternative Treatments - What Really Can Help

August 24, 2005 - Wednesday
1:50 PM to 2:50 PM (EST)
Guest Speakers: Marc Passmann, LAc

Categories
Acupuncture • Complementary Medicine • Infertility • IUI • IVF • Miscarriage • PCOS

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Lisa_Rosenthal	Welcome, thanks for joining us this evening.
Hunoosh	thank you
Lisa_Rosenthal	How did you hear about the session this evening?
Hunoosh	I was lucky enough to get an email
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Hunoosh	I also visit the sight regularly and know there have been others in the past. But I keep forgetting about them
Hunoosh	So happy for the reminder in the mail
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Glad you're here!!!
Hunoosh	thnx
Lisa_Rosenthal	Jenna and gh, thanks for joining us. Dr. Passmann will be here in just a few minutes.
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gh	Hi Lisa, I'm GH, Gail Harris, I'll be leding the session next week and am sitting in on this one to see how it works.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi Gail, thanks for introducing yourself. Great idea to sit in tonight.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi Stephen, glad to see you here this evening.
Stephen	Hi Lisa, great topic
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi wannababy, good to see you here.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi ann, thanks for joining us this evening.
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MTP	Hi everyone
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi MTP, thanks for joining us this evening.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi Marc, thanks so much for joining us this evening! We're excited to have you here.
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Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Thank you, Lisa
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Please feel free to post questions for Dr. Passmann and remember to cut and paste your questions as they will scroll away.
MTP	Dr. Passman, have you ever heard of Reiki being used along with infertility treatments
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Passman was kind enough to send me some information that I will be posting throughout the session. Here's the first of it.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	MTP, yes I have. I often use it in conjunction with acupuncture treatments.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Chinese medicine is the oldest, continuously practiced medicine in the world. It's written literature stretches back almost 2,500 years. Approximately one quarter of the world's population makes use of it today. From a Chinese perspective, health is an ongoing process of maintaining balance and harmony among the systems of the body. Practitioners of Chinese medicine seek to find the imbalances and correct them using acupuncture, herbs, moxibustion, nutrition, exercise and relaxation techniques. Acupuncture is the practice of inserting thin, disposable, sterile needles into strategic points on the surface of the body. Energy (Qi or Ki) flows through the body in a system of channe
MTP	I had reiki done two weeks ago and i felt absolutely great, after a long time..and since i am starting IVF this month, i was thinking of using it to just keep the positive good energy flowing and not bundled up in one area
Hannah	My Doctor is dead set against my using any other types of treatment while I'm under his care. Any suggestions of papers or research to support what I'd like to try?
Broc1996	MTP could you please explain what Reiki is?
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	MTP, That's a good idea. Most people find it very relaxing and it can help reduce the stress of an IVF cycle.
Lisa_Rosenthal	MTP, please allow Dr. Passmann to explain Reiki, I would appreciate it.
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Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Hannah, There have been a few studies showing the efficacy of acupuncture treatments in conjunction with IVF. The study most commonly quoted and easiest to find is a German study from 2002. It was published in the April 2002 edition of Fertility and Sterility.
Lisa_Rosenthal	eb11600 and Sugga, thanks for joining us this evening with Dr. Passmann. Please feel free to post questions and cut and paste them as they will scroll away.
MTP	are acupuncture treatments covered under insurance when going throug hIVF?
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Dee	Is acupuncture helpful in preventing recurrent miscarriage?
NancyFox	What are the diagnoses that are really helped with accupuncture?
Hunoosh	i'm sorry if I sound stupid but please tell me, what LAc stands for.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	MTP - That depends on the state. I am not familiar with all state regulations. Most states have an acupuncture organization that you can contact to find out. You can trying looking on acpuncture.com to find state organizations.
eb11600	Are herbs from a licensed herbalist helpful in treating ovulation difficulties or egg quality?
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Dee, Yes, acupuncture can help prevent recurrent miscarriages.
Lisa_Rosenthal	The American Fertility Association has a message board that specializes in alternative medicine and treatments. We are hoping to be lucky enough to have Dr. Passmann answer questions there.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	NancyFox, Chinese medicine uses a diferent set of diagnosis than Western medicine, so this question is a little difficult to answer. I would say, however, that acupuncture can be more successful if you are not deaing with any type of physical obstruction.
Prill	thank you
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Hunoosh, L.Ac. stands for licensed acupuncturist
Hunoosh	Does it depend on the state or the insurance comp. itself that determines if acup. is covered?
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Hunoosh	thank you
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wannababy	Do you believe that there's an emotional component to fertility and it's treatment with chinese medicine?
Lisa_Rosenthal	fal and suz, thank you for joining The AFA and Dr. Passmann this evening.
Broc1996	my sister-in-law got pregnant after just 1 month acupuncture treatment
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Please feel free to post questions and remember to cut and paste them so that if they scroll away you don't have to retype. The room gets quite busy and Dr. Passmann will answer one question at a time, thoroughly.
Hunoosh	Is acup. used with MFI?
Lisa_Rosenthal	emma120, thanks for joining us this evening.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	eb11600, Herbs can be helpful treating ovulation difficulties and egg quality. Age will be a factor in how sucesful treatments will be. I would recommend seeking out a trained herbalist and keeping your M.D. informed about what you are doing.
fal	I have done three IVFs and the two I had accupuncture I got the best uality eggs and the best response (chemical pregnancies)...
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi Kath, thanks for joining us this evening.
Dee	Can you please explain how the treatment would help in preventing miscarriage? For example, does it improve blood flow or treat natural killer cell/immune issues?
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Hunoosh, It can depend on either or both. Some states mandate insurance companies to cover acupuncture treatments, but they might specify what can be treated.
emma120	I have done 3 IUI's and 2 IVF's all unsuccessful. I have PCOS, Hydrasalpinx and have had bad egg quality. I don't know what other options I have and what else can help
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Passmann, thank you so much for being here and giving us your time and expertise. We so appreciate it.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	karinc, pecos and wjawad, thanks for joining us this evening.
pecos	your are welcome
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Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	wannababy, Yes, I do believe there can be an emotional component to fertility. Chinese medicine will always look at an emotional component to any disorder. The medicine does not seperate the mind from the body, rather, it recognizes how each affects the other in overall health.
karinc	Hello, I'm wondering about acupuncture, chinese herbs...other nutritional supplements that might be recommended?
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wjawad	My apologies for joining late, maybe this question has been asked... Are there any supplements known to "help" IVF be more effective?
pecos	its clomid at alternative treatment
Lisa_Rosenthal	wjawad, no apology is necessary and we have not really covered that very important question.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	pecos, Clomid is most definitely not an "alternative" treatment. It is prescribed and monitored by Reproductive Endocrinologists and OB/Gyn's.
pecos	thank you
Lisa_Rosenthal	Yola and jcorino, thanks for joining us this evening. Please feel free to post questions for Dr. Passmann.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Dee, Chinese medicine doesn't use the same entirely the same language as Western medicine. Also, there really isn't any research that shows exactly what is happening, such as treating natural killer cells. From a Chinese perspective, acupuncture works by correcting imbalances in the various organ systems. In terms of recurrent miscarriage, there can be deficiencies in the Spleen, Kidneys and Liver, all of which are responsible for holding the fetus in the uterus. Acupuncture and herbs would seek to build up those systems so the body can maintain the pregnancy. I'm sorry if that answer is a little esoteric. I would need more time to go into Chinese medical theory to answer your question completely.
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Hunoosh	Are male inf. supps considered "alternativ"?
jcorino	Are there any alternative methods for shrinking fibroids?
christinetx	what type of alternative medicine is there to improve egg quality or is there?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Passmann shared some wonderful written information with me, which I am posting next.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Chinese medicine is the oldest, continuously practiced medicine in the world. It's written literature stretches back almost 2,500 years. Approximately one quarter of the world's population makes use of it today. From a Chinese perspective, health is an ongoing process of maintaining balance and harmony among the systems of the body. Practitioners of Chinese medicine seek to find the imbalances and correct them using acupuncture, herbs, moxibustion, nutrition, exercise and relaxation techniques. Acupuncture is the practice of inserting thin, disposable, sterile needles into strategic points on the surface of the body. Energy (Qi or Ki) flows through the body in a system of channe
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	karinc, I can't give you specific recommendations without having done an intake on you. You can speak directly with an acupuncturist in your area. If you would like to find some information before you do that, you can pick up Randine Lewis' book, The Infertility Cure, in which she discusses acupuncture and herbs in the treatment of fertility issues.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Chinese medicine is the oldest, continuously practiced medicine in the world. It's written literature stretches back almost 2,500 years. Approximately one quarter of the world's population makes use of it today. From a Chinese perspective, health is an ongoing process of maintaining balance and harmony among the systems of the body. Practitioners of Chinese medicine seek to find the imbalances and correct them using acupuncture, herbs, moxibustion, nutrition, exercise and relaxation techniques. Acupuncture is the practice of inserting thin, disposable, sterile needles into strategic points on the surface of the body. Energy (Qi or Ki) flows through the body in a system of channe
NancyFox	Dr. Passmann, could you please post your phone number?
NancyFox	Do you see patients?
pecos	how about ginsen?
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	wjawad, I am not familiar with specific supplements to help IVF be more effective. An acupuncturist might like to use herbs, but they would differ from person to person depending on their Chinese diagnosis.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Randine Lewis has written for The AFA several times. With No Barriers, our free online membership, all of our publications live online to download and read.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	prariegirlwest, thanks for joining us this evening.
prairiegirlwest	thanks for being here to join!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Passmann is having some technical difficulties, he'll be back in a moment.
prairiegirlwest	gotcha, thanks, I was wondering
jcorino	Are there any alternative methods for shrinking fibroids?
Lisa_Rosenthal	jcorino, I know that there are many alternative treatments for shrinking fibroids. Hopefully Dr. Passmann will be back in a moment to discuss them with you.
jcorino	thank you
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Lisa_Rosenthal	He's back, yipppeee!!!
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Sorry, I got disconnected.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Please repost questions as Dr. Passmann is unable to see anything that has come before this.
jcorino	Are there any alternative methods for shrinking fibroids?
Hunoosh	Are Male supps considered alternative
christinetx	What are some or the alternative treatments for recurrent micarriages?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Hunoosh, not usually, but it depends on the supplement. Many are a variety of vitamins.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Jcorino, Chinese medicine, including acupuncture and herbs, Reiki and I'm sure homeopathy and naturopathic medicine have ways to help shrink fibroids. However, you need to be patient if you are going to try these methods, as it is often a slow process.
jcorino	thank you
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Hunoosh, I'm not sure what male supps you are referring to.
emma120	I have done 3 IUI;s and 2 IVF's all unsuccessful. I have PCOS, damaged tube and poor egg quality. I am only 34 yrs old and don't want to give up, what other alternatives are there to help along with the fertility protocol
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wjawad	Is massage beneficial? Any specific type, i.e., deep tissue, better then the next?
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Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	christinetx, I can only answer that question as an acupuncturist. Needless to say, I would use acupuncture and Chinese herbs. The herbs I would use would depend on your Chinese diagnosis. gnerally speaking, I would recommend a series of treatment before trying to get pregnant. I usually recommend three months of treatment, if possible.
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christinetx	thank you
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Hunoosh	can acup. help with MFI due to varicele?
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	emma120, Acupuncture is helpful in conjunction with IVF cycles.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	wjawad, Massage is beneficial. Most types of massage will prove helpful from a stand point of reducing stress. I would suggest including abdominal massage.
Stephanie	I will be starting my first IVF cycle in October. Is it too late to start Acupuncture to see beneficial results?
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SMEWM	I am interested in what you think about herbs in conjunction with IVF? My acupuncturist is recommending to me for implantation issues.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Hunoosh, It may help with a varicele, but generally speaking, it is a long process. Also,acupuncture is less successful when there is a physical obstruction.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Stephanie, starting to see an accumpunturist would be a great idea and definitely not too late.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Stephanie, No, it is not too late. It is good to have treatment through at least one menstrual cycle before you start IVF. If you can do more, that's better, but it is not too late.
Hunoosh	thank you
ann44	Dr. Passman, do you accept new clients? And if so, could you post your phone number?
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Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	SNEWM, I think herbs can be helpful, but that decison should be discussed with your M.D. Most physicians do not like their patients to be taking herbs during an IVF cycle. You can cetainly use them up to the beginning of the process, but you should keep your dopctor informed about what you are doing.
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Hunoosh	Thank you to Lisa and Dr. Passman. You are a blessing to those of us who are in desperate need to conquor infer. I appreciate your time and advice. Good night everyone.
Prill	Dr. Passmann, please post your phone number
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Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	ann44, I do accept new clients. I am located in Manhattan. My phone number is 917-667-2348.
NancyFox	Thanks for your phone number
SMEWM	Thank you for your insight.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	You are all very welcome.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Ladies and gentlemen, the only way I get such wonderful speakers to come on is by promising them that they will be able to sign off at 9 pm sharp. That gives us another 12 minutes with Dr. Passmann, so please post any questions that you may have.
prairiegirlwest	any thoughts on chiropractic care before and during a pregnancy, as it relates to infertility and recurrent miscarriage?
pecos	do you travel,like albany area?
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	prairiegirlwest, I am not familiar with Chiropractic care as it relates to pregnancy. I don't see an issue before pregnancy. As far as during pregnancy, you would need to ask a Chiropractor.
ann44	what do you think of homeopathy instead of more traditional drugs?
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Pecos, I'm sorry, I don't, but thank you for asking.
pecos	no problem
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	ann44, What kind of drugs?
chuladonna	Dr. Passman, you may have answered this but I came late - exactly how effective is accupuncture with IVF sucess? Is there any other treatment you would recommend in conjuction with IVF? I tend to get VERY anxious/stressed with any medical treatment I may have to go through.
BeattArc	would you consider accupuncture important enough to switch doctors for? my doctor will have a fit at my doing accu.
Stephanie	This may have been asked already, but is it ok to see treatment by anyone who performs acupuncture or should you find one who deals with infertility? I live in a very small state and they are limited!
ann44	antiobiotics, over the counter pain killers, etc.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	chuladonna, I can give you numbers from a German study in 2002. there have been other studies since, but I don't have those numbers with me. In the german study, women who received acupuncture with IVF had a pregnancy rate of 42.5% compared to 26.3% with IVF alone.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	There is also a great study that was done in Colorado within the last two years. If you google it, you will be able to find it.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	chuladonna, Apart from acupuncture, I would recommend Reiki, massage and some type of meditative activity, such as meditation of Tai Chi, to help with the anxiety and stress.
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chuladonna	Wow, that sounds almost unbelievable! Thank you both, I will definitely look into it.
Lisa_Rosenthal	What a wonderful session. Thanks to everyone for such interesting questions and particularly to Dr. Marc Passmann for being here to answer the questions in such a thoughtful, informed, compassionate way.
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	BeattArc, I can't answer that question for you. That really is a personal decision. Your relationship with your M.D. is an important one and you would need to balance the quality of your realtionship with him/her versus other treatment you might want to seek.
SMEWM	Can severe stress alone cause implantation failure or recurrent miscarriage?
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Lisa_Rosenthal	SMEWM, there are many trains of thought on that subject. There are women who have been through incredible trauma, physically and mentally, who don't miscarry or have infertility. But, generally, stress is a real problem for those of us trying to get pregnant. And generally, whatever we can do to alleviate the stress is incredibly helpful.
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Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Stephanie, If there is someone who specializes in fertility, see them. However, if that is not a possiblity, acpuncture training usually has comprehensive OB/GYN training, so any acupuncturist should be able to help you.
BeattArc	Dr. Passmann and Lisa, thanks... good night.
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Lisa_Rosenthal	mmery, thanks for joining us this evening
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	ann44, Depending on the conditions you are treating, I think homeopathy can be effective.
Lisa_Rosenthal	We are so grateful to Dr. Passmann for his time and energy this evening. Dr. Passmann, I hope that you will join us again sometime!?
mmery	Thank you. I'm late...
NancyFox	Great session .
NancyFox	good night
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Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Definitely. Thank you, Lisa.
SMEWM	Thanks for organizing this topic for discussion!
Hannah	will you be posting on the alternative board?
Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Hannah, Yes, I plan to start.
Lisa_Rosenthal	SMEWM, my pleasure. If you ever have suggestions or feelings about what topics you would like to see here, please let me know by emailing me at lisa@theafa.org
christinetx	thank you for time good night all
Dee	Thank you Dr. Passman and Lisa for your time and answers. It was very helpful! Good luck to all!
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SMEWM	I will! Thanks! Good night!
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Marc_Passmann__L.Ac.	Good night everyone
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gh	Hi Lisa, Would it be possible to chat for a few minutes before I lead my session next week? We can arrange it thrugh Carol Arnold.
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Lori	I missed tonights session. Is there anyway I can read the script?
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leanne	hello
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leanne	is anybody here
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