Deciding Between Adoption and Egg Donation

November 3, 2005 - Thursday
1:41 PM to 2:41 PM (EST)
Guest Speakers: Ellen Glazer

Categories
Adoption • Egg Donation • Gestational Carrier • Infertility • International Adoption • IVF • Surrogacy • Third Party Reproduction

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ellen_glazer	Testing..
deb_capone	Good Evening and welcome to the American Fertility Association's Online Education Session.
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deb_capone	Good evening, and welcome to the American Fertility Association's Online Education Session: The Fork in the Road: choosing between Egg Donation and Adoption
deb_capone	admin%
deb_capone	Tonight we welcome Ellen Glazer. Ellen has over 25 year of experience couseling people through infertility and adoption. She is the author or co-author of six books.
deb_capone	We will begin shortly.
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deb_capone	I am your moderator tonight.
deb_capone	My name is Deb Capone, and I am the Education Coordinator at the American Fertility Association.
Dawn	hi. are we waiting to start?
deb_capone	Welcome, dawn and yes, we are waiting a few more minutes.
ellen_glazer	Hi Dawn, would you like me to start?
deb_capone	Tonight we will be discussing "The Fork in the Road" with Ellen Glazer. We will explore what happens when people realize they need to consider a "second choice" path to parenthood. How do people think about egg donation and adoption? We will look at are some of the advantages to each and what questions do people ask themselves about each option. Ellen Glazer has counseled people going through infertility and adoption for 25 years and is the author or co-author of six books including the most recent Having your baby through egg donation.
Dawn	I'm okay with waiting. I actually have to think of questions... was thinking I would read other people's questions for awhile.
deb_capone	Ellen, I turn the program over to you.
deb_capone	it is just 8pm...you are right on the money
ellen_glazer	While I wait for people to send me questions, I will review some of the advantages and disadvantages of Adoption and Egg Donation. Of course, I am mindful that everyone comes to this fork in the road with different feelings, experiences, losses, hopes, ideas and baggage. the "baggage" of regret is one of the biggest burdens I see among people considering egg donation and adoption.
Dawn	I've been through 3 losses and 2 failed IVF, so I'm taking some time to decide on next step. Adoption seems like the obvious next choice, but I'm starting to try and learn a little about egg donatoin
Dawn	I have the infertility issue, so I feel bad about not giving my husband a little one that is genetically related to him
ellen_glazer	Anyway, here are a few general thoughts. First, on adoption. Adoption works. It brings a baby into your lives. That doesn't always happen with egg donation. Egg donation is a "chance"--adoption is "for sure." Another advantage of adoption is that adoption brings you a healthy baby--at least at placemebnt. Pregnancy is always unpredictable. But I will stop..I see some questions..
deb_capone	Ellen, some of the questions are coming to me.
ellen_glazer	Hi Dawn, I can imagine how difficult your decision is and how much of a burden it feels to be "the one with the problem." Does your husband prefer egg donation or is he on board with you about adoption?
Dawn	He seems to be a bit more on board with Adoption
deb_capone	There are a few questions about what you mean by chance? Is it 50/50? How does it compare with other treatments
ellen_glazer	Hi Dawn, if your husband and you agree (which is not always the case for couples), then why not choose adoption? Egg donation has a lot to offer but there is always the chance you will face more losses.
Dawn	But it could be because we aren't knowledgeable about egg donatoin. It just seems like Egg donation can still fail just as much as IVF with our own eggs
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Dawn	I just felt like maybe we should explore all option for genetically related before persuing adoption.
ellen_glazer	I said egg donation is "a chance" because my understanding is that there is about a 50% (at best) pregnancy rate per cycle. Then there is always the miscarriage risk. This has been a bad week in my practice for egg donor pregnancies. One woman had an early miscarriage, another a 20 week loss and one woman came to me for adoption and said she had tried with four different donors. That is what I meant by a chance.
Dawn	I'm also scared of adoption in that what if the mother changes her mind and doesn't want to give it up. There's just no "for sure" optoin which is what I of course want after years of ups and downs
ellen_glazer	Dawn, it sounds like you, not your husband, have feelings about a child that is genetcially connected to him. That is a common feeling--you fell in love with him and want to have a baby that is truly his--one in which you can see parts of him.
Dee_Dee	I just got on .... If I understand correctly with Egg donation, there is only a 50% chance of getting pregant? I thought there was a higher percentage rate of getting pregant from a donor egg.... Could you give more details?
deb_capone	Ellen, we are getting some questions about when it is appropriate to look to other methods
ellen_glazer	Dawn, you are correct that with domestic adoption, birthparents always have the right to change their minds AT BIRTH--not weeks or months later (some states allow them to change their minds for a short time). So...adoption has its ups and downs but I have never known a couple that has not succeeded in adopting--and in a timely way.
deb_capone	Welcome, Dee Dee, we are glad to have you.
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deb_capone	Dawn, as a side note to adoption, international adoption is pretty much a sure thing.
deb_capone	We seem to have lost ellen for a minute...
deb_capone	She is having technical difficulties.
Dee_Dee	okie dokie
deb_capone	Hang for a second.
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deb_capone	Welcome back Ellen
ellen_glazer	sorry, I was disconnected!
deb_capone	Ellen, can you address Dee Dee question about her perception the donor egg was better than a 50% chance.
ellen_glazer	While I wait for more questions, I will get back to Dawn's questions. International adoption is not as much of a roller coaster as domestic.
deb_capone	Tonight we will be discussing "The Fork in the Road" with Ellen Glazer. We will explore what happens when people realize they need to consider a "second choice" path to parenthood. How do people think about egg donation and adoption? We will look at are some of the advantages to each and what questions do people ask themselves about each option. Ellen Glazer has counseled people going through infertility and adoption for 25 years and is the author or co-author of six books including the most recent Having your baby through egg donation.
ellen_glazer	Hi. My answer to Dee Dee must have been cut off. Dee,Dee, I explained that I am not a medical person but that donor egg works some of the time and not always. As I said, this has been a tough week with lots of losses. I just spoke today with a woman who lost a baby at 20 weeks.
Dee_Dee	Thanks for your response
deb_capone	Ellen, when do most people begin to consider alternatives like donor egg or adoption.
ellen_glazer	Dee Dee, if you try donor egg several times you will have a better chance of success. I have known people who have had to change donors.
Dee_Dee	What is an approx cost to going through an egg donor, just once?
deb_capone	Another question that comes through is how do you go about making 'second choice' not second best?
ellen_glazer	Deb, I have found that there are people who think about second choices early on because it helps them a lot to have a "Plan B." There are others who do not want to think of Plan B until they have exhausted any chance of Plan A working. The importannt thing is that people DO know when it is time to move on. I have found that you can only be ready when you are really ready.
deb_capone	What if one person is ready and the other one is not?
deb_capone	I have Orly, Steven and Wannababy sending me questions, Ellen. For some reason they are coming directly to me.
deb_capone	Welcome, Orly, Steven and Wannababy.
ellen_glazer	Hi.I will try to answer two questions--about cost and about second best. About cost, it varies widely because of insurance plans, whether the donor receives a fee etc. etc. Let me focus on the other question about how can "second choice not be second best." I am an adoptive mother and I will acknowledge that adoption was not a first choice. However, when you have a real baby--whether through egg d or adoption--that child is your "first best child." I hope that makes sense. There is a difference betwen the child and the process.
Dee_Dee	Hmm ... I'm not seeing any questions from Orly, Steven nor Wannababby.
deb_capone	They are going into my mailbox, Dee Dee
Dee_Dee	Thanks
Dawn	well, I'm caucasion an my husband is asian indian... so we don't fully understand how that might help us or hurt us in the adoption process. And since we have no children, we have pretty strong feelings of wanting a newborn... seems like International adoption has a lot of options for infants around a year old, but not always newborns. I will admit I am not very educated about adoption yet... I'm attending an informational seminar next week. But I don't feel like I know how to choose between adoption and egg donation.
ellen_glazer	II got another wanring notice--I may be cut off again. Until then...if one person is ready to move on and the other is not---this is very common and not always a bad thing. It is usually the woman who is exhausted before her husband is. I have found that couples often come to counseling when one is ready and the other says "not yet."
ellen_glazer	I was warned again about flooding...
deb_capone	So how do you counsel couples who on different schedules?
deb_capone	you are still here, Ellen
deb_capone	As a reminder, The American Fertility Association at www.theafa.org has a wealth of information on adoption, egg donation and other fertility related topics
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deb_capone	ok, we seem to have lost Ellen.
deb_capone	Dawn, I my daughter was born in China and I am Caucasian-I am also a single parent.
Dee_Dee	I was interested on if one decides on Egg Donation, are there any tips on how to explain this to a child growing up?
deb_capone	Most of the children available for adoption are around 12 month old. However, there are countries that do have children as young as six months. You would have to do some research and work with a reputable agency.
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deb_capone	Welcome back, Ellen.
Dawn	thanks Deb, and Good question Dee Dee
ellen_glazer	Type hereI keep getting disconnected!!
ellen_glazer	I am sorry everyone, please keep sending questions--I keep getting disconnected.
deb_capone	You are flooding and Orly, Steven and wannababy are 'channeling' thru me. Is there a full moon.
Dee_Dee	Not sure if you saw the question.... Are there any tips on explaining to a child growing up that they were from a donated egg?
ellen_glazer	Dawn, ou are right that international adoption usually means a child who is a few months or older. You can adopt a newborn in the U.S.
deb_capone	Ellen, can you address Dee Dee question about explaining to children that they were from a donated egg?
ellen_glazer	Hi Dee Dee, this is a complicated question. I think that the most important thing is that the donor be known to you--a sister, friend or someone you find from a program and can identify. Then talking with your child can be a happy, secure story. You can talk about how your husband and you created the child with the help of "Aunt Sally" or "Susie" or...you can tell a happy story and when the child asks where he/she came from, you have the answers. The people who seem to face difficult situaitons are those who have anonymous donors---children want to know where they came from and who else they are related to. I could go on but this is a complicated topic!
ellen_glazer	Since no other qusetions came in, I will add more about talking with children...I have just returned from the International Conference of Donor Offspring so I am up on this topic. Again, the important thing is to have the Truth and Information and to feel proud and secure about the decisions you have made.
deb_capone	Ellen, wannababy wanted to know why-beyond the ability to tell a happy story-why a known donor would be a better choice than an anonymous donor. Isn't it better to keep this information to oneself?
ellen_glazer	Another point...it is important to begin taling with a child at a young age. I find that kids are o.k. if they hear about DE or adoption even as late as school age but parents get so anxious! You shouldn't spend months and years worrying about a conversation with your child.
ellen_glazer	Another flooding warning...
Dee_Dee	Do you think a child would feel insecure if the donated egg was from an egg donor agency? We've been reviewing photos on line. Some profiles indicate they are willing to meet the potential parents but others prefer not to meet. Would you suggest meeting with the egg donor, if so what types of questions should be asked?
deb_capone	Great question, Dee Dee
deb_capone	Let's hope Ellen doesn't flood!
ellen_glazer	I will try to answer before I get disconnected. I don't like the word "anonymous" for donors since that suggests the child won't have essential information. In our book, Evelina and I call donors "Program recruited" if they are not family or friends.
deb_capone	Orly would like to know how best to approach a family member or friend to be an egg donor?
Dee_Dee	Would a child feel insecure knowing that they were from a program recruited donor?
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Dee_Dee	Just sharing, my husband and I tried to ask family members and friends, and they declined. We called my mom's 2nd cousin.
deb_capone	Ok, Ellen is flooded again. I apologize for the technical difficulties
deb_capone	Dee Dee can you share with us why the declined?
Dee_Dee	They weren't too specific
deb_capone	it must have been really hard to ask...and tougher to be declined
Dee_Dee	We asked my sister in law if she would be interested in donating an egg to match with my brother's sperm .. Thought it would be nice to have a niece or nephew as our child. She declined.
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deb_capone	Given that, I would like to ask Ellen how common it is for known donors to say no.
deb_capone	Great, Ellen..good timing
Dee_Dee	We asked a friend of my mother and she was willing. My doctor indicated she would have to go to an agency. My Reproductive Endrogonlist indicated that way she would be screened.
ellen_glazer	Type hereI was disconnected again and couldn't get on
deb_capone	Ellen, we are into a discussion about known donors.
ellen_glazer	Hi Dee Dee, If your friend will donate, the usual process, at least in Massachsuetts, is for you to bring her to your doctor (RE) He/she will refer you to a mental health person and a lawyer and your donor and you will need to go througth medical, mental health screening and a legal consultation. It is costly and time consuming but worth it.
Dee_Dee	Ellen --- any thoughts about a child feeling insecure if the donor was an agency recruited donor?
Dee_Dee	Would it be the same in California?
ellen_glazer	Hi Dee Dee, I am hopeful that if you meet an agency recruited donor and can provide your child will information, the child will not feel "insecure." The term people use is "geneological bewilderment." If you have information and you share it openly, your child should not feel geneologically bewildered. Hope that makes sense.
Dawn	I've heard just a very little bit about Egg Donation where they can inject your cells/genetic material into the dontated Egg.... so that the Egg takes on your genetic makeup... Is this really something that is on the horizon for fertility treatment? is it reasonably soon, or years and years away?
ellen_glazer	Dee Dee I am guessing it would be very similar in California as this is not a state law--I'm just describing common practice.
deb_capone	Ellen, what types of questions should we be asking potential donors?
ellen_glazer	Hi Dawn, I, too, have heard about what you are describing. I don't know if it is something that will happen and if so, how soon.
Dawn	is there a name for it?
Dee_Dee	Dawn ... I saw it on PBS... I asked my RE and she said that the program was discontinued because the wasn't a high percentage of sucess. She told me that she didn't beleive any one was doing it in the U.S.
Dawn	thanks... at least I know I wasn't making it up in my head
Dee_Dee	I'm not sure of the name either. It involves injecting the younger woman's egg's mitochondria (sp?). The power house of the egg.
ellen_glazer	Hi Deb, in terms of asking potential donors questions, I have found that people have the following "criteria" and that different things matter more or less to different people. I'll list the important issues: 1. Is she a mother (if not, can she truly know what she is giving away?). 2. Is she fertile? You can never know for sure, but if she has had a baby recently or donated successfully (which raises other issues), then she is more likely to be fertile.Age also influences fertility. 3. Why is she donating (children don't want to feel they are a "commodity."). 4. Appearance--does she look something like you or your husband. 5. Ethnicity--people often want a donor from their ethnic g
ellen_glazer	I stopped my last message in the middle as I have another flooding warning. I'll go on with some other criteria--health--people often don't want to "introduce a new health issue into our family."
ellen_glazer	Otehr criteria for donors--temperment--people don't want depressed donors. Mental health history is also very importnat.
deb_capone	Ellen, we have had several questions about the cost of adoption vs. donor egg. Do you have any information on that?
deb_capone	Orly asks, 'how do you screen for mental health?
Dee_Dee	What about the blood type of the egg donor. We have A & O positive blood. Should we look for A+ & 0+ blood donors only? Any thoughts of other blood types including RH negative donors?
ellen_glazer	Deb, adoption is between $15,000 and $35,000 in MOST instances (private, non-profit) but remember that the U.S. gov gives people $10,400 for an adoption plus employers generally give around $5000.
ellen_glazer	Costs continued...Donor egg can range from a few thousand (if you have a sister and insurance coverage and are just paying mental health counseling and legal fees) to around $25,000 if you a paying for a cycle, an agency and a donor fee. These fees re-occur in a second try unless there are froxen emborys.
ellen_glazer	another flooding warning!
Dee_Dee	I haven't heard of an employer giving money for an adoption. What is that called? How does one find out more about adoption money from an Employer?
ellen_glazer	I'm not clear about the blood type question. I'm sorry.
Dee_Dee	What is the cost for freezing egg donor embryos?
deb_capone	Dee Dee, check with your HR department. It is often a benefit. In my case, my employer covered most of my adoption costs.
Dee_Dee	Thanks for the info!
ellen_glazer	Hi Dee Dee, most large companies, hospitals etc have an adoption benefit. It is usually around $5000 and is payable when an adoption is completed.
Dawn	My company has it... called "adoption assistance", and it's listed as one of our Benefits.... like Compensation, Bonuses, Health Insurance, 401K, Adoption Assistance
Dee_Dee	Cool
ellen_glazer	I'm still connected...
deb_capone	Ellen, we have about ten minutes before we close for the night (and who knows how long before you flood). Can you give us some thoughts=based on your experiences personally and professionally about the pros and cons of egg donor vs. adoption and how we can transition to plan b on an emotional level?
ellen_glazer	Hi . I just saw the question about freezing embryos. I am sorry that I don't know the cost. I do know that there is a freezing cost and then a storage cost. If you have a baby and want to have a second a few years later with stored embryos, you will have to pay along the way.
Dee_Dee	Is there a way to contact mother's that have gone through Egg donation to get their perspective, like a support group? It would be interesting to hear their insight too.
Dee_Dee	Thanks for the info!
deb_capone	Dee Dee the message boards at the AFA site www.theafa.org is a great place to start!
Dawn	What about legal battles of Egg Donors trying to get some rights to the child? Seems like with adoption you hear about mother's coming back to fight for child, but with egg donation, at least the child is related to your husband.... but are there legal battles with egg donors trying to get access to the child realted to them?
Dee_Dee	Thanks
ellen_glazer	Hi Deb, this is a complicated question for closing thoughts! My main message is that there ARE happy endings to the long journey of infertility. It is most important that people choose a path to parenthood that they can feel confdient and happy about. Currently, adoption is VERY accepted in our society, almost celebrated. Egg donation is sadly talked about in secrecy. I feel taht as people become more open with their choice, egg donation can also be a path to parenthood that people can celebrate and talk about with confidence and pride.
Dawn	assuming "program recruited" egg donor in my previous question
ellen_glazer	Hi Dawn, there have not been legal cases involving egg donors. I have heard of only one very, very strange one. But remember, the legal cases involving adoption are very, very rare and almost always involve birthfathers.
Dee_Dee	Would egg donor children be interested in meeting their half siblings from the egg donor mother?
Dee_Dee	.. I'm thinking maybe for medical reasons, needing to get in touch with their half siblings from the Egg donor.
ellen_glazer	Hi Dee Dee, we can never generalize that "everyone will feel a certain way." However, we have learned from adoption and sperm donation that people often are much more curious about siblings than "
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deb_capone	Oh, boy. Another Flood...
Dee_Dee	It must be raining where's Ellen is at... What is a flood?
deb_capone	I think it is a computer thing...
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ellen_glazer	sorry I was cut off again!
deb_capone	I would like to remind everyone that the reason we are able to get people like Ellen to be so generous with their time is to respect it.
ellen_glazer	Thank all of you for participating. I hope things go very well for each of you. Please know that I see so many, many happy endings.
Dawn	THANK YOU ELLEN.
Dee_Dee	Thanks for time and info!!
ellen_glazer	Thank all of you again. I wish I hadn't been disconnected so often!
deb_capone	As we approach the one hour mark, I would like to express my gratitude on behalf of all the participants and The AFA to Ellen. Thanks for a great session.
ellen_glazer	Good luck Dee Dee and Dawn and others.
Dee_Dee	Thank you
deb_capone	Thanks Ellen. And here's to happy ending for all here tonight!
deb_capone	Please visit www.theafa.org for more information.
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ellen_glazer	Thanks so much Deb for arranging this.
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Deciding Between Adoption and Egg Donation

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