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East Meets West in Reproductive Medicine

August 28, 2007 - Tuesday
5:26 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers: Mike Berkeley, L.Ac

Categories
Acupuncture • IUI • IVF • PCOS • Pregnancy Loss


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Corey_Whelan Hi Nicole and Dr. Berkely! Welcome.
Dr._Berkley Hi all! I am so excited to be here.
Corey_Whelan I am Corey Whelan, The AFA's Director of Development and your chat moderator tonight. I am so pleased and truly honored that Dr. Mike Berkley, L.Ac., is our guest speaker tonight. Dr. Berkely is considered the premier acupuncturist treating fertility related issues, as well as other issues, in the field of holistic medicine and acupuncture in the U.S. We are very lucky to have him here this evening. Dr. Berkely is based in NYC, at The Berkley Center for Reproductive Wellness and Women's Health. If you're not based in NYC, board a plane! Our chat officially begins in ten minutes but Nicole, do feel free to pop an early question into the hopper.
Dr._Berkley Corey....you are too kind! Thank you so much for your kind words.
Corey_Whelan Let's hang out for a few minutes, my experience is that people start logging on at just start time.
Dr._Berkley No problem.
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Dr._Berkley Hi Dolores.
Dr._Berkley Hi Nicole.
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Dr._Berkley Hi Suzi.
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Dr._Berkley Let's get this party started. This is not a spectator sport. What do you guys want to know?
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Dr._Berkley Hi Caitlin.
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Dolores Hi Dr. Berkley. I have a question. I have pcos, I'm 42, ttc for three years. I have never had acupuncture or done any holistic work at all. I am not overweight, not a typical pcos body. I have a 20 y ear old daughter, would like to have a baby with my current, new husband! Currently in low tech treatment, doing IUI's. What do you think?
Dr._Berkley Hi Dolores. Thanks for your question.
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Caitlin Hi Dr. Berkley
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Dr._Berkley You have 2 issues: 1 is that you are 42 which in reproductive terms is considered advanced maternal age; 2, you have pcos. PCOS is a 'spectrum' disorder meaning that you can be vrey mild pcos or very severe or somewhere in the middle. You need to be fully assessed by an R.R. and also, do acupuncture and herbs. Metformin has been shown to help pcos improves fertility outcomes. Combining Eastern and Western approaches will, in my opinion proffer the best results.
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Dr._Berkley Meant RE
Dolores Thanks Dr. Berkley. I really don't want to do metformin, a friend of mine really suffered on that medication. What kind of herbs?
Dr._Berkley Dolores: some women react badly to metformin but most do not. I really cant tell you what kind of herbs because herbs are specifically compiled to treat not only a 'disorder' but the entire patient. So we would need to do a full intake before I could prewcribe herbs. I want want to know your fsh/e2/lh/prolactin and tsh. And, I would want your hubby to have a semen analysis. We (or your acupunctuist) can take it from there.
Dr._Berkley Also, IUI's are probably not the right direction to take, If anything, an IVF is more appropriate.
Dolores Thanks Dr. Berkely. I appreciate the info.
Dr._Berkley My pleasure and best of luck!
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Dr._Berkley Hi ladies, welcome. How can I help?
Corey_Whelan Dr. Berkley, a question that we get asked alot on The AFA helpline is about how acupuncture feels. Everyone wants to know if it hurts!
Dr._Berkley Great question Corey! Acupuncture does NOT hurt. In fact, it really relaxes people. I promise!
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Corey_Whelan Hi Moesbaby. It wouldn't be a tuesday night without you! and welcome to everyone else!
Dr._Berkley Hi Moesbaby.
megahopes How should I go about finding a good acupuncturist? What questions should I ask?
moesbaby Thanks,,,,you either
tanyadockter Dr. Berkley, I'm wondering when during an IVF cycle you would recommend acupuncture?
Dr._Berkley Mega: visit www.aborm.org. This is a new organization whose members are acupuncturists specialize in the treatment of infertility.
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Corey_Whelan Megs, you can also call The AFA helpline for a referral, no problem there
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Dr._Berkley Tanya: acu is a process oriented modality similar to pyschotherapy or physical therapy. It is best to start 3-4 months before an ivf cycle. But if that is not possible start as soon as you can.
tanyadockter Thank you....how often do you generally need to be treated?? weekly, monthly, etc
megahopes What is the average cost?
Dr._Berkley Tanya: typically we treat twice weekly pre transfer and twice weekly for 13 weeks post transfer assuming that pregnancy is +.
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Dr._Berkley Mega: Hard to say. It varies throughout the country. We charge $250.00 for the first visit which includes an intake and treatment and $1350.00 per visit thereafter.
Dr._Berkley I meant 125.00 per visit
kk31393 Sorry I joined late so you might have already explained this, but can you explain how accupuncture helps with getting pregnant?
Dr._Berkley hi kk.
Dr._Berkley Essentially acupuncture increases blood flow to the lining and the ovaries. Blood carries oxygen, nutrients and hormones to the ovaries and carries debri (dead cells) away. This frequently improves egg qualty and increases lining quality which is important for implantation.
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CA_Gort Thank you Dr. Berkley for being available to us. I am a 36 year old woman rated by the fertility specialists at the Mayo Clinic as "extreme infertility" for no known cause. I've been using ovulation testing kits and seem to not be ovulating despite having regular cycles. With 14 years of not using birth control, I've only had one pregnancy (which luckily resulted in a healthy boy smile - I've been considering accupuncture - could it be helpful to get my ovary producing? Is it hard to find accupuncturists who would know about fertility issues in a more rural, midwestern area? If I had to travel it would be hard to keep up with a treatment schedule like you described.
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kk31393 I'm guessing I may be a good candidate then, I have PCOS and have had 2 miscarriages. But now seem to be having a hard time getting pregnant, it's been 11 months since the last.
jenny would you also suggest using other fertilty methods to help see when you are ovulating?
lovely i have pcos and i ovulated on my own this past cycle for the first time in years, as i had been on bcp for about 3 years, is there anything i can do to keep up the momentum? i had an hsg about a week before i ovulated
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Dr._Berkley Hi CA and thanks for your question. I am sorry to hear of your difficult journey but thank goodness for your liile guy!. There has to be a reason why you're not ovulating and it must be diagnosed properly. Proper diagnosis leads to propeer treatment. You are NOT in premature ovarian failure because you have a regular period. If you are an athlete or extremely thin or extremely over-weight, this can lead to hormonal imbalances. The ovaries may not be communicating with the hypothalamous and/or pituitary. You need a great RE.
Dr._Berkley KK. You would be.
Dr._Berkley Jenny...the best way to see if your ovulating is to either use an ov predictor kit, or keep a BBT chart or be monitored 7 days post day 14 by your RE.
Dr._Berkley lovely how old ru?
jenny is there a particular kit you like to work along with the acupuncture. I am in MI so I want to get the best information out there
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Dr._Berkley jenny: try a product called OV Watch. Find it on Google. Its a great ov pred kit.
Corey_Whelan OV Watch is a terrific product. The AFA seal of approval is on it.
lovely 25
jenny great thanks. I start next week and hope that this will really help me.
kk31393 For herbal supplements, I had tried Vitex (agnus castus) but stopped because I started taking Metformin. I also use Femara. I keep thinking that too much mixed together may be harmful. Is it safe to take all 3 of these medicines together?
Dr._Berkley lovely: here is a good combo for you: metformin, clomid, acu + herbs and IUI. Speak with your RE but this is what id recommend.
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Dr._Berkley kk: yes. BUT. In Chinese herbal medicine we dont prescribe one herb. We prescribe herbal formulas which can contain 2-20 herbs in it.
lovely thank u dr berkly
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Dr._Berkley Lovely. My pleasure. Good luck on your journey.
kk31393 Where would you get these combined formulas and have you seen positive results with this?
Dr._Berkley KK: Of course...we see positive results daily. This is what we do at the Berkley Cneter. You need to find a Board Certified herbalist who specializes in treating infertility. AFA has a referral system and you can also visit aborm.org for a referral.
kk31393 Thanks for all your help.
Dr._Berkley kk...My pleasure. Hang in there and stay strong!
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lovely dr berkley, what can be done about a low sperm count (1 million)
megahopes dr berkley, Do you recommend taking Vitex? What are the benefits?
Dr._Berkley lovely...it depends on the cause. Here is what acu + herbs CANNOT treat: micro deletion of the y chromosome: absence of the vas deferens, vericocele, or calcification on the testicle(s). If your hubby does NOT have low sperm count do to these cause he can probably be helped with acu + herbs.
moesbaby Dr. Berkley do you think electro-acupunture (think thats what it is called) would help with my right ovary? Had a dermoid cyst surgically removed 5 years ago and has not been active since. My current acupunturist will not do it. Says it won't help.
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Dr._Berkley mega: I do recommend vitex as the best results when taking herbs comes from taking customized, specific formuilas created speciffically for an individual patient. In herbal medicine one size does NOT fit all.
jenny does accu help with PCOS
lovely thank u again
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Dr._Berkley moesbaby. Electro acu is not necessarilly the answer. Does your acu prescribe herbs?
Dr._Berkley jenny...yes IN CONJUNCTION with Western tx.
Dr._Berkley lovely...you are most welcome/
moesbaby No he had a patient pregnant and she miscarried and blamed him so he stopped.
Dr._Berkley jenny: Yes, acu can help with PCOS in conjunction with Western tx.
Zimmy Hi - sorry, I joined late. I am 37, have had 3 miscarriages a few years back (which failed due to incompetent cervix), and am just through round 2 of IVF which didn't take. They took 17 eggs each time (a good response, apparently), transferred 3 each time (to a surrogate), but none of the remaining embryos lasted until day 5 for cryopreservation due them being "poor quality". Would acupuncture help with (i) egg (and therefore embryo quality) and (ii) my incompetent cervix? (Long question, sorry!)
Dr._Berkley Moesbaby. He is inexperienced. If he did not do electro acu on the pt when she was preg he had nothing to do with her loss.
moesbaby Maybe I'll go on the site you recommended and find a new acupunturist
jenny thanks
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Dr._Berkley Zimmy:acu + herbs can help imprv you egg quality (maybe). Cervical cerclage is the answer to an incompetent cervix.
Dr._Berkley Good move moesbaby.
Dr._Berkley Jenny, you're welcome.
Dr._Berkley Hi shaymer01
Zimmy Yes, we have investigated cerclage, but still not a great prognosis. Why do you say maybe?
Dr._Berkley Zim: becuase everything is maybe. For example your ivf's didnt work but that does not mean that ivf is not a viable procedure but that it may or may not work. We have had hunderds of successful cases using acu + herbs and many, many failures too.
Zimmy This is true, just thought you might have another little insight! Each bit helps!! Thanks
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Dr._Berkley Zim: my insight is thus: don't give up. Do another ivf; include acu + herbs and do Cerv cerclge and pray.
Zimmy Yes, we'll keep trying!!!
Dr._Berkley zim: right on!
Dr._Berkley Suzi what is your situation?
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Dr._Berkley Hi rek. Welcome.
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Dr._Berkley Hi Tammy.
rek thank you.
Dr._Berkley Of course rek.
Dr._Berkley ::smile
rek I'm not sure how this works.
amccloskey I have heard for stress that you can do either Accupuncture and massages. Do you think one is better than the other? Or are they the same?
tammy dr. berkley I have done 2 ivf and both have failed. Husbands sperm count is great but they have deemed us infertile. I am ovulating (I use ov-watch and BBT) but nohing is getting us to stay pregnant. Would accu & herbs help us?
Dr._Berkley rek. Just ask me any thing you want to know about acupuncture, herbs, infertility, ivf, high tech, low tech fertility methods, etc.
rek ok, thanks.
Dr._Berkley amc...both becuase they do different things. Acu releases endorphins which are endogenous (internal opiod like substances) which are very relaxing. Massage is physically comforting and nurturing.
rek I'm working with a very competent accupuncturist, many many years of experience with both accupuncture and herbs, but I don't believe she "specializes" in accupuncture. Do you think this matters.
Dr._Berkley Tammy...maybe. but fir4st you need to be properly diagnosed which you have not been. There is NO SUCH THING as idopathic infertility only poor diagnostics.
Dr._Berkley Yes rek, I do.
CA_Gort Dr. B - I'll contact the AFA for help in finding a qualified accupuncturist, but I'm worried that living in a smaller town in Minnesota it might be challenging. Is it helpful to go to a practitioner who may not be as qualified as those in your practice? Having never had accupuncture, how can I tell if they are doing it correctly - are in the right frame of thinking, etc? With the course of treatment you discussed above (2x week) I'm just not sure I could get to a practitioner in a bigger town like Minneapolis - which is 2 hours away. Is it better to try one of the chiropractors in town who advertise accupuncture to have regular treatments or try to reach a further away practitioner for infrequent visits?
Dr._Berkley rek...you wouldn't visit a podiatrist for your back pain and you shouldn/t go to a genralist acupuncturist for your fert issues.
rek I'm sorry I meant to say specializes in fertility issues, not accupuncture. Do you think that matters?
Dr._Berkley ca. Let me do a phone consult with you and then I will manage your case with ANY acu tht you can find. They will be guided by me.
tammy thanks dr b I feel much better knowing that I can get help soon. I am going to contatc the afa for a good RE in my area (tx)
Dr._Berkley rek you should be treated by an acu who specializes in infert.
Dr._Berkley Great Tammy! Hang in there baby!
Dr._Berkley Tammy where ru in texas?
CA_Gort Thank you Dr. for saying that proper diagnosis is important. In all of our years of fertility challenges it has always frustrated me that the western medical community seems to focus treatment on their plan (follow this treatment protocol because we've had success with it) instead of figuring out what is wrong - why I'm not conceiving. And they look at me like I'm crazy when I protest.
CA_Gort Wow - that would be fantastic. I will call your office during the work day. What a wonderful idea!
Dr._Berkley CA. YOU ARE RIGHT AND THEY ARE WRONG!
Dr._Berkley CA...my pleasure! 877-965-BABY
moesbaby Dr. do you think about adding wheatgrass everyday to my treatment? What about a product called Monavie? It's Brazilian acai berries.
rek Another question.. I saw my reproductive endrocronologist today and asked him about taking herbs. He told me that I could take vitimins, see an accupuncturist... but he didn't want me taking any herbs. Does this make sense to you?
Dr._Berkley moes...I dont know about the brazillian stuff but wheatgrass is an excellent anto-oxidant that wont get you pregnant but will help you overall, general health.
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Dr._Berkley rek: most res dont want their pts taking herbs. Their hearts are in the right place but their knowledge is not. They r trying to protect you from medicine which they are not familiar with. This is to their credit. If you get herbs from a BOARD CERTIFIED HERBALIST you'll be fine.
shaymer01 Dr. what do you think of L-arginine?
Dr._Berkley Ladies: my phone # is 877-965-BABY and my site is berkleycenter.com
Dr._Berkley Shay: It is also an anti oxidant frequently used in remedies like Fertile One to treat sperm anomolies.
shaymer01 but for women? egg quality / quantity...ever use it for this?
Dr._Berkley Shay...not to my knowledge but it cant hurt.
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Dr._Berkley Hi EMS.
shaymer01 thanks!
Dr._Berkley Shay...you're very welcome.
Corey_Whelan guys, I need to give you a heads up that we've only got about five minutes left.
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moesbaby I had another acupuncutist that I went to that seemed like she knew what she was doing but I got worried because she never asked me what day of my cycle I was in. Are there points that are not good to touch during certain times of your cycle?
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Dr._Berkley Moes. Not really. But the fact that she didn't inquire about your cycle is an indication of her lack of experience. Its not so much because of what points to use or not to use but its to make sure that you continue to have a normal cycle with an apparant normal luteal phase.
Dr._Berkley This has been wonderful. I am honored to have been given the opportunity to chat with all of you. Thank you so much and I wish each and every one of you twins and more. You Can do it>
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shaymer01 thank you so much!
Dr._Berkley Shay. My pleasure and THANK YOU!
Zimmy thanks, Dr. B!
rek Thank you. I think I will give you a call!!!
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Dr._Berkley Zim + Rek...thank you both. All the best and hugs!
Dr._Berkley ok rek.
moesbaby Thanks for all your help Dr. Berkley have a great night!!! Good night all! Baby dust to all! See you next Tuesday Corey ::biggrin
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Dr._Berkley Good night all. Im going to watch the Yankees kill Boston. Speak soon!
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moesbaby GO YANKS!!!!
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Dr._Berkley Yes Moes!
Dr._Berkley Corey thanks and big hugs.
Dr._Berkley Nighty night !
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