He Said, She Said

What to do when you can’t agree on family formation options

August 15, 2006 - Tuesday
3:59 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers: Joan Wino

Categories
Adoption • Donor Egg • Family Building • Infertility • IVF • Pregnancy • Pregnancy Loss

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cynthiahammonds1985	Hello everyone4
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cynthiahammonds1985	so does anyone here talk
Luly	Hello
cynthiahammonds1985	great
cynthiahammonds1985	hi
cynthiahammonds1985	thanks for speaking to me
cynthiahammonds1985	this is more about the adoption right
Luly	I guess - I am not sure
cynthiahammonds1985	thanks
Luly	I was under the impression the topic tonight was about something different
cynthiahammonds1985	what
joanwino	Hi this is Joan Winograd, the topic we will be discussing is when partners are in different places regarding their planning family issues. We will start at 8:00.
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Moderator_DBecker	Good evening everyone - just a few minutes more and the chat can offically begin.
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joanwino	Hi this is Joan, I'm open to answering any questions!
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Moderator_DBecker	Welcome to tonight's chat
Luly	So the question of the hour is how do you handle things when you are ay odds for what is best?
cynthiahammonds1985	I do not even understand that
joanwino	Luly, I specialize in infertility issues, primarily when couples are at different places regarding family plans.
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia -- what do you not understand??
cynthiahammonds1985	different places
Moderator_DBecker	Joan - can you tell us about your practice?
joanwino	Yes. I am a certified social worker. I have been in practice over 20 years. I specialize in working with couples and individuals in helping them make decisions regarding child planning choices. For example, pursuing invitro fertilization, ovum donation, and adoption.
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia - I can only respond to my own experience with respect to my wife and I sometimes being on a different page of the same book so to speak when it came to issues like adopt or donor or adopt domestic or adopt foreign
Moderator_DBecker	Thank you Joan
cynthiahammonds1985	thanks
Luly	Joan - that was what I meant by my question. We are trying to have a family and need help. If I want to have children I will need to do donor egg or adopt. I would like to feel pregnancy and childbirth, he would like to adopt. How do you handle that sort of situation?
Moderator_DBecker	Although we have a wonderful guest tonight with a great topic - just a reminder that all general "infertility" questions are welcomed
joanwino	Okay Luly, that is a common problem. For starters, it's important that both of you feel heard. One day a week, each of you need to feel that you are being listened to by each other.
cynthiahammonds1985	great; how much chance does a woman 40 or 41 have of getting pregnant on her own?
joanwino	Cynthia, you have to discuss that issue with your doctor. Everyone is different.
Luly	I do not think we have an issue of that as we speak a lot and are open about our thoughts and feelings
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia let me preface this by saying that I am not a doctor but based on knowledge and experience my answer is this - if you have not already seen an reproductive endocrinologist (RE for short) than you should
cynthiahammonds1985	I have and no one will answer it
Luly	It is a metter of feeling different things and being in different places. He does not understand, and will never understand, the womens aspect of motherhood and all the physical things that come along with it. Therefore, it is hard to get to the same place.
joanwino	Luly, I understand this is very frustrating for you. How long have you been in dissagreement?
Moderator_DBecker	Conception at above 40 can happen but chances do diminish - the latest research seems to indicate that overian reserve starts to diminish after 30 to 35 so the chances of sucess diminish as well.
Moderator_DBecker	Just recently there was an article that indicated that it is not just the age of the "egg" but also the "sperm" that plays to the rate of sucess.
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia - are you adverse to undertaking interventional measures?
joanwino	Luly, have you gone to couple counseling regarding this issue?
Luly	Well I would not say so much as to "disagreement" rather with different opinions. He supports what I want to do but I feel like I am being selfish and not giving his option a chance.
cynthiahammonds1985	no
cynthiahammonds1985	i was willing to adopt or anything, my hubby does not want to adopt
joanwino	Luly, why does your husband feel more comfortable with adoption?
joanwino	Cynthia, why doesn't your husband want to adopt?
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia has your doctor told you if you are a good candidate for IVF or something else?
Luly	I am very open to adoption as we had discussed adopting even before we were in this predicament. We have always wanted to have our own gentic children as well as adoptive children. We are now faced that I will not be able to have genetic children so the decision has to be made as to which way to go
cynthiahammonds1985	yes that is what we are trying to come up with the money for; my husband just wants our children. I want a child
joanwino	Luly, would you and your husband be open to counseling?
Luly	He feels that, as many others do, IVF is a chance to take for a high price and with adoption it is more of a sure thing for the same price. If we have to spend money to obtain a family, we feel that money would be better used at providing a home for a needy child. I totally agree with him and always have but go back to our maternal instincts of wanting to bear our own children.
Moderator_DBecker	Luly, as a former patient, I would attest to the value of counseling
Luly	Yes we are open to counseling.
joanwino	Cynthia, what about you? Would you and your husband consider counseling?
Moderator_DBecker	Joan - what geographic area do you "service"??
joanwino	My practice is on the Upper West Side of Manhattan
cynthiahammonds1985	I would but he would not
cynthiahammonds1985	we are near richmond va
Luly	I am located in Florida
joanwino	Cynthia, it could still benefit even if you went alone.
Moderator_DBecker	I am on the Lower East Side of Manhattan
cynthiahammonds1985	normally i would agree with you, but now I must try to save every penny for the ivf so we can rush and do it
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia - my wife and I have previously been in couples therapy and each in individual counseling over these kinds of issues
joanwino	Cytnhia, what about slidng scale clinics?
cynthiahammonds1985	I used to beg for that, he would never talk to anyone; he barely speaks to me
cynthiahammonds1985	they have none that I can find here
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia - has your doctor ever said anything about using a donor egg
cynthiahammonds1985	yes we spoke about it
cynthiahammonds1985	and it is even more expensive
cynthiahammonds1985	heck I tried to find a female I trusted and I was going to let my husband and her make a baby the normal way, but he woud not do it
Moderator_DBecker	Money used to be a major topic in therapy!
joanwino	Cynthia, those kinds of situations become very complicated.
cynthiahammonds1985	yes but I just want a baby
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia - that is not the most perfered reason for alot of reasons, especially the legal ones
cynthiahammonds1985	i dont care about anything but having a baby
joanwino	Cynthia, I know this is very frustrating, and when we feel desperate we make decisions we ordinarily wouldn't do.
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia wanting one is one thing but above "everything" else?
cynthiahammonds1985	well I am about to leave him; I am getting where I hate him; I want a baby
joanwino	I think it is very important you see a mental health professional. Maybe your doctor can recommend a clinic or a clergy.
Moderator_DBecker	Although donor egg is more expensive - the chances greatly improve - because even if not sucessful on the first try - it is more possible to have a second cycle with unused pre-embryos in a frozen embryo transfer - a fraction of the cost of IVF in most center thru out the country
cynthiahammonds1985	well he will not do it and that is that
cynthiahammonds1985	thanks
joanwino	Cynthia, why does your husband feel so strongly about having a biological child?
cynthiahammonds1985	I do not know I think he it has something to do with he is not a very social person and he does not want many people envolved
joanwino	Cynthia, it's important to listen to what is on his mind, even if you strongly disagree. IS having children important to your husband?
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia - do you think that he would be interested at all in speaking or emailing a "guy" about this topic??
cynthiahammonds1985	he says so
cynthiahammonds1985	i ask him over and over what does he want
joanwino	Moderator, that is a great idea.
cynthiahammonds1985	he just said no
joanwino	The AFA has a men's only telephone coaching group.
cynthiahammonds1985	I have tried that; he said yiou know me better than that and thats the end
joanwino	Luly, do you have anything we could help you with?
Moderator_DBecker	Speaking from a guys perspective - sometimes talking with another guy who is a professional or has been thru these issues can be better than speaking with a woman
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Moderator_DBecker	Carrie welcome to tonights chat with Joan Winograd - the main topic is strategies for dealing with and coping when partners don't agree on family formation - however, all general questions are welcome
joanwino	Carrie, I am a social worker who specializes in infertility issues with individuals and couples.
cynthiahammonds1985	do you work in a private practice
cynthiahammonds1985	I have not heard of special social workers like this'
carrieboova	I apologize, I didn't meanto log into this discuss. Thanks and good night.
joanwino	Cynthia, I do work in a private practice on the Upper West Side of Manhattan.
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cynthiahammonds1985	ok
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Moderator_DBecker	Welcome Kay to tonights chat
kaylalunaava	Thanks!
joanwino	Do you have any questions regarding family planning when you are and your partner are at different places?
Luly	Cynthia - maybe you could try counseling on your own. My husband and I did couples counseling a few years back and then he went on his own for a while. Both types helped us but the private sessions helped him understand a little more of how to deal with me and communicate with me. That might help you to get your husband to see a different side of things.
Moderator_DBecker	You know I have very greatful that Joan is here tonight - this is such an important topic that is not always discussed
joanwino	One issue that we haven't discussed is the importance on putting time limits on the decisions because these issues could never be resolved.
joanwino	Kayla, do you have any questions?
Moderator_DBecker	Joan - I am curious how is that decided - that is the time frame in which to seek or finalize resolution??
Moderator_DBecker	Kay - it can be a general question if you prefer
joanwino	For example, I have worked with couples who are more concerned with being pregnant than being parents. They spend so much time pursuing pregnancy and lose sight of the ultimate goal, to be a parent.
Moderator_DBecker	If you have not already joined AFA's No Barrier program - please do - there are lots of great resources available
Moderator_DBecker	Joan - it happened to us!
joanwino	Tell us about it, moderator dan!
Moderator_DBecker	I have significant male factor but we were sucsessful in haveing a biological child after our 2nd attempt - and then we wanted #2 and if I knew then what I know now - I would have been a younger parent for #2 then I was.
cynthiahammonds1985	I will just die if it takes more than one try
joanwino	I understand that. It is very common.
Moderator_DBecker	Eventually, we had a donor baby and I have to say parenting for me is much much more than biology but that is not how I felt in the early years!!!!
joanwino	Cynthia, the average time it takes to get pregnant is from 5-8 months of trying.
cynthiahammonds1985	of how many ivf attempts
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia - my case is an extreme - my male factor issue was akin to sterility and my wife eventually tested possitive to imunological factors
cynthiahammonds1985	i have pcos , one 30% working tube
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia - do you really want to know??
cynthiahammonds1985	yes; its seven right
joanwino	Cynthia, there are too many variables for me to estimate that.
Moderator_DBecker	Cynthia - how did you know that??
cynthiahammonds1985	thats what most people tell me
joanwino	Are there any general questions or comments regarding or NOT regarding what we're discussing now?
Moderator_DBecker	You can search under the publication "in focus" and find an issue called "in the male" and you can read my story
Moderator_DBecker	But it did not take that long once we started using donor sperm!
joanwino	Dan, you're a wonderful example to show that parenting is much more than biology. It is important to realize your goal is to be a parent.
cynthiahammonds1985	I do not see that
cynthiahammonds1985	can you send me the link; I would love to read that
Moderator_DBecker	IF you sign up for "no barriers" on the AFA home page - you can read back issues of IN FOCUS quarterly special interest newsletters - there are all kinds of issues including third party reproduction
joanwino	There is a book I would like to recommend called "Getting the Love You Want (A guide for couples)" By Harville Hendrix, PHD
joanwino	It illustrates how men and women relate differently.
cynthiahammonds1985	Cool thanks!!!!
cynthiahammonds1985	You got that right!
Moderator_DBecker	I was looking at my AFA "stuff" I just found a copy - it is called "the Male" and it was published in the Winter 2003 edition
Moderator_DBecker	Joan, I certainly learned the truth mars and venus
cynthiahammonds1985	yes I agree
joanwino	Dan, that's a very good book as well.
Moderator_DBecker	Have read both!!!!
Moderator_DBecker	Well, our time is almost up - any last thougts from anyone??
Moderator_DBecker	In the meantime, I would like on behalf of the AFA to extend out great thanks to Joan for taking time out of her own life to help us in ours!!!
cynthiahammonds1985	Thanks for talking to us! We need to hear more of how and what men think.
joanwino	I just want to say it's imporant to listen to your spouse even when you disagree and have time limits imposed so you keep in mind what is really important.
joanwino	Thank you, I really enjoyed this!
Moderator_DBecker	Please check the AFA home page for the next chat sceduale
Moderator_DBecker	Joan - my wife tells me that every day!
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joanwino	Good Night Everyone!
Moderator_DBecker	Good Night
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Moderator_DBecker	thank you all for making this night possible and I wish you all the best and a very good night!
cynthiahammonds1985	same to you
Moderator_DBecker	Feel free to continue to chat but I need to go.....
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cynthiahammonds1985	anyone else want to talk?
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cynthiahammonds1985	k later
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What to do when you can’t agree on family formation options

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