How to trust yourself to make the decision that is right for you.

January 24, 2006 - Tuesday
7:59 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers: Gail Harris
Author

Categories
Adoption • Endometriosis • Fertility • Infertility • IUI • IVF • PCOS • Pregnancy

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jollyf	Hello everyone!
lucyjanney	hi
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Prayingwomanttc	hello
Gail_Harris	Gail Harris has joined
Prayingwomanttc	Gail can ou please tell us what you are going to be discussing tonite.
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Gail_Harris	We will be talking about how to trust your heart's messages or your intuition to make the right choices as you go through your process of forming a family. And we will be taking a look at what makes this natural process so difficult to do at time--especially when you are experiencing something as challenging as infertility
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deb_capone	Welcome, Gail. I would like to get the ball rolling by asking you why you wrote your book?
elissact1976	hi all first time here
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deb_capone	Welcome, Elissact1976
deb_capone	And Sunnydayz
deb_capone	Gail seems to be having some technical difficulties...
judym	Hi elissa. Me too - its my 1st time. Is this the chat on "Making a Decision that's Right For You"?
elissact1976	ya
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deb_capone	Yes...it is...author, Gail Harris is going to talk to us about listening to your heart...
mikelach	Hello all, it seems like I'm the only guy in the room
shay09	good evening evey one
deb_capone	You might be mikelach...and we are sure glad you are here...
GraemsMama	Good for you, Mike!
judym	Hi Mike - welcome. Nice to have a guy's perspective!
elissact1976	hi Mike
mikelach	Thanks! I feel empowered!
shay09	hi mike
GraemsMama	haha Lucky you too...you know how many men would die to be on chat with 16 women?
deb_capone	If you all are comfortable, why don't you share something about your fertility journey with the group.
Lori	HI Mike! I bet you've never felt this popular before!
Gail_Harris	Hi Deb, I wrote my book when I lost my twein girls 22 weeks into my PERFECT pregnancy after tryig for 5 years to become pregnant. It was horrible. But the good that came out of it, or one of the good things is that my heart know like it never knew before that the only way i would get through this crisis and make room for another baby to come into my life was to listen to my heart. so i taught myself how. My heart guided me to write the book to share with others what I've learned so they can have as fulfilling a life as I now have. The book poured out of me.
mikelach	Not in a long time .. my wife is still on her way home from work
mikelach	we're both 39 and seem to have both brought issues to the table
deb_capone	Ok, gang, we have lift-off with Gail.
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GraemsMama	5 IUI's, 2 IVFs - all negative. My partner got pregnant on her first IUI and we have a one year old daughter.
deb_capone	For five years, Gail Harris battled infertility. When IVF led to pregnancy she was overjoyed. But her delight turned to sadness when she miscarried 22 weeks into her pregnancy. Consumed by guilt and self-blame, she knew the only way to get through this difficult time was to listen to her heart so she taught herself how. In her new book, "Your Heart Knows the Answer: How to trust yourself and make the choices that are right for you:, she teaches the strategies she used to survive and become the mother of a two year old. She teaches how to understand what your heart is trying to tell you and to distinguish between what your heart is saying and what your head is saying. When going through the infertility process or battling an illness it is easy to get caught up in the influences of the medical profession, family and friends. Tonight Gail will show you how to listen to your heart while navigating the infertility process.
shay09	pcos only tried clomid no success
Gail_Harris	To get things rolling I thought we would take a look at a time when we have trusted our hearts, that innate wisdom that guides you in your life. Would someone like to share a time when they trusted their heart?
elissact1976	I have had 3 ivf's and non worked , feel like it will never work after hearing so many say how long they have tried
Gail_Harris	Are you trusting your heart in this process, elissa
shay09	there was a time when every one was trying to run my life about marrying my husband but i listened to my heart and he is the best yhing that has ever happened to me
mikelach	My wife has gone through 4 IUIs and 2 IVFs with no luck, she is very depressed and thinks it will never happen for us
sjudy	I have been so consumed with infertility that I don't know what or who to trust anymore, my head or my heart.
GraemsMama	It seems like you get to a point in the IF journey where your heart is broken and you feel like you can't trust it anymore
elissact1976	yes to the fullest, but a new feeling has entered dought and that is a hard one to battle
Gail_Harris	thank you shay, that is a great example. anyone else? What about trusting your heart knowing that you want to be a parent? anyone
Lori	Gail, thanks for sharing your story....my heart tells me I need more in my life, I am blessed with all that I have but I know I have more to give, especially to a child .the problem is my body isn't cooperating...tried several IUI's one IVF but endometriosis and fertility meds have taken their toll....missing a tube now and an ovary.....I'm looking for any hints to help with the process
GraemsMama	trusting your heart and choosing the partner you will be with...
elissact1976	im starting to feel the same shay but I don't want to feel that way
shay09	i feel it in my heart that i know one day i will be a parent i even dream what my child looks like and it is always a little boy
Gail_Harris	sjudy, thank you for sharing that. infertility can make it so difficult for us to trust ourselves because we have so many disappointments and so many people telling us what we should do. that's why it is so important to TO CONNECT BACK WITH YOUR HEART. Can you remember a time when you did trust your heart?
jwexler	i absolutely trust in my heart that i want to be a parent. i don't know how much to trust IF docs. That is the hard part and when to pursue adoption to fufill the parenting dream.
mikelach	we are on our third fertility doc, because the first two turned us off, the new one seems to be taking a wider view of our issues, but how do you know he's concerned or just running up the tab with more tests?
Gail_Harris	jwexler, Great that you trust your heart that you want to be a parent. Now your heart can also guide you as to which docs to trust and not to trust and what your next steps should be.
shay09	i agree with jwexler i too dont have much trust in IF docs. they care more about telling you what to do than trying to work about a plan we both can agree on
GraemsMama	I think we all hold onto the fact that someday we could be biological parents - because it seems like any 15 year old can get pregnant. It becomes so hard to get to the point where you just say enough's enough - enough stress on the relationship, on your body, emotionally, and on your fianances.
sjudy	Even with so many people (family and friends) telling me to do things and try, I do know in my heart that I want to be a mother.
Gail_Harris	You have to learn how to distinguish your heart's messages from all those outside influences. When you connect with your heart you will see that if has very distinct characteristics that diffferentiate it from your head voices.
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Lori	I trusted my heart to try again and that is when a major tumor was discovered after a routine ultasound.....I'm thankful it was benign and that they found it when they did, it was devine intervention in my book....so do I continue or give up because of the doubt it will work demon?!?!?!
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elissact1976	good question Lori
Gail_Harris	For example, your head will tell you that things won't work out. your heart will tell you to trust and that they will work out. Your heart has distinct characteristics such as it's intention
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jwexler	is it wise to follow my heart or gut instinct about a doc? i felt i could not trust him very early on, although i am not sure why.
shay09	my last doc only ran blood test never discussed them with me told me he would start me on injects when i felt like i never gave the clomid a try especially with the metformin i mean i hear a lot of women with pcos have great success withe the clomid and met but i feel like my doc was just no listening to me how do you get them to listen to what you know your body is telling you
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Gail_Harris	Yes, it is wise, jwexler to trust your heart about a doc. Who else would you trust?
sjudy	I am currently waiting to see if our second IVF worked and my head has been telling me there is no way this has worked because the first one didn't. I struggle to try and tell myself that yes it can work.
GraemsMama	shay: most docs do 6 cycles with clomid and gluco before inject - because PCOS people hyper stim
Gail_Harris	sjudy, if you can recognize those negative voiceses as the fear that you have internalized the, it may make it a bit easier to hang in there. The trouble starts when we start beleiving those negative voices, which is so easy to do.
shay09	i haven't tried clomid since 99 and that was at a small dose of 50 mgs no met used at that time
jwexler	Gail - can you discuss the connecion between stress management and listening to your heart?
sjudy	yes, i agree. thank you
shay09	and the was only for 3 cycles and they were never monitored
Gail_Harris	great suggestion, jwexler. Your hert's wisdom is that calm place inside of you that trusts and know that things will work out in their own perfect way. So take quiet time for yourself every day. Connect with the passion you have for wanting to become a mom, and that will help with all the stress.
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GraemsMama	For our next IVF cycle I don't want to know how many eggs were retrieved or the grades, because I think so many times we get wrapped up in all of that. When I knew they transferred 3 bad embryos last time -- I had the attitude before they were even put back that it was a negative.
jwexler	thank you so much. i hear you !!!
GraemsMama	so Gail, how many IVF cycles did you do?
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sjudy	I purchased meditation cd's recently and have found those very helpful for stress managment.
elissact1976	I know this might sound silly, but why do you have to wait 14 days for blood work and never be cked during to see if the et worked or is working, you get an et and then don't hear or know nothing till 14 days
GraemsMama	and what was going to be your stopping point?
Gail_Harris	jwexler, this is not easy stuff we are talking about here. it is so easy to get caught up in all the disappointments and nagativity. that is why it is SO imperative to connect with that inner knowing. otherwise you can get lost emotionally, and spiritually.
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judym	Gail, I appreciate the advice, but how can your heart know the best way to proceed when there is so much complicated medical information to absorb & understand?
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Lori	great ? judym!
elissact1976	I know all the bla about your hcg but how do you know if the et wotked you take shots all that time and for nothing
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Gail_Harris	okay judy, here it is. go out and get the facts, do your research on clinics, docs, ets so you can make an informed decision. Then look to you heart and it will guide you independent of what others may tell you
jwexler	i would love to read your book. i am searching for some inner peace with this. sometimes the medical info is too much to manage and i want to run from it, especially when you have no real answers. you think medicine is so scientific and predictable, but it is not .
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mikelach	This is Mike's wife, Leslie. Has anybody been told that the quality of their embryos weren't good due to age, and that if IVF didn't work on the third attempt to consider donor eggs? Any thoughts about donor eggs.
elissact1976	is this my heart making me feel this way or my head???????
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GraemsMama	Hey Leslie, I've heard that before. However, I'm 29 and have fragmented eggs too. Donor cycles many times have a sucess rate of 40-60%
amarichal	I had my first IUI yesterday. I'd just found out Friday that I had hostile cervical mucous, so the last 6 months of Clomid and HCG injections were down the tubes. My husband told me tonight he enjoys the two weeks from ovulation until I get my period, because I'm happy and hopeful. Then CD 1 and 2 I'm devastated, and 3-7 I'm Clomid crazy and scared about the next round. This has been such a struggle since I'm usually upbeat, but infertility is really depressing.
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judym	Mike & Leslie - we are using donor eggs. I am 42 and the RE told us we only had a 10% chance with my eggs. So we decided to use DE.
jwexler	why didn't they test your cervical mucous before??
mikelach	I've heard that success rates are higher. I'm just not sure I'm ready for donor eggs emotionally. Judy, was it a difficult choice?
GraemsMama	amarichal: I hope it works for you this time.
elissact1976	well good night all dont seem to be geting any responce thank you bye bye
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deb_capone	Gail is experiencing technical difficulties
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GraemsMama	mike: don't do it until you are absolutely ready -- even if it means doing a cycle with your own eggs first.
judym	Mike & Leslie - yes, in some ways it was a difficult decision. Feel free to e-mail me offlline if you'd like - judithbrown@hotmail.com
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amarichal	The dr didn't think it was necessary. I was so upset the last failed round, that I insisted he do it. Otherwise he would have given me a few more cycles to try. I really am a believer in doing my own research and making my feelings known to the doctor. It's hard though, since he's the expert.
mikelach	Thanks Judy. That's very nice of you. We will take you up on your offer to contact you offline.
jwexler	has anyone used Hcg shot for IUI and then had a temperature shift the next day?
deb_capone	Gail is desperately trying to get back in...
amarichal	I just had an HCG shot on Sunday, then IUI yesterday. My temp is so screwy, I don' t know if it's me or the thermometer, so I don't trust it.
GraemsMama	jwex: wouldn't your temp spike because you O'd?
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jwexler	amarichal, i know what you mean. i should have insisted he did my last IUI a day before he did, but i felt intimidated.
Lori	I have a question on the hostile cervical mucous? Why and when do they test for that and do you need that test if you are doing IUI or IVF? I'm thinking I might have missed something?
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jwexler	graemsMama - yes, that is what I thought and we are MISSING ovulation for IUI. They tell me that no, the timing is just right. I thought the temp. shifted AFTER ovulation!! I am so frustrated.
mikelach	Lori, I have never had that test and I've done 4 IUI's and 2 IVF's.
judym	Yeah, good question Lori. Why would you need a test on cervical mucus if you are doing an IUI?
amarichal	I had the mucous test done and that told us that we would have to do IUI. That's why we went to IUI.
GraemsMama	jwex: i'd ask, if this cycle doesn't work - for them to do blood work and/or ultrasound - cause that will pinpoint it to the 12 hour period.
Lori	Has anyone ever done and IUI then had a blood level check the next day to see if the O happened and if not repeated the IUI? My friend got pregnant that way!
judym	Lori, I have heard of others doing this, but not personally.
GraemsMama	lori: I had that...except the bloodwork showed I O'd and so the cycle was cancelled
deb_capone	We are going to pick up with jwexler's last comment on searching for inner peace when it all seems overwhelming.
jwexler	Lori - my doctor does not do that which frustrated me! do you have to ask for it or what?
gail_harris	jwexler, I can fell and understand your frustration. this is precisely why you have to trust yourself and the process. The docs don;t have the answer for you. You have the answer in your heart
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deb_capone	Welcome, Nikki.
Lori	Oh that makes sense!
nancy	Gail--back to your book and your experience. Can you speak to how the head and heart "voices" are distinct?
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Lori	I don't know because my dr. does the blood test one week after the IUI, the dr. that got my friend preggo is in the same office and did the blood work the next day, when I asked my dr. he said hmmm I never tried that before!
GraemsMama	Man, I feel like if it were up to my heart I'd be living in a cardboard box right now - because I would have had 3 more IVFS!
nikki	thank you. sorry for the delay, i just figured out how to respond/participate
gail_harris	Yes Nancy, Your heart is like a built-in coach and motivator. It remins you to fulfill your highest potential. It will tell you to trust. You will feel calm or tingly in your body. And your heart will alwys speak to you with unconditional love, even when prodding you to make a different choice about something
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Lori	LOL GraemsMama..I hear your pain and loose change in your purse!
GraemsMama	haha I need to move to an IVF mandated insurance state.
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gail_harris	Your head is just the opposite. It makes you feel helpless, like a failure, tells you things wont' work out, it can make you feel panicy or lethargic and with is that critical side of us that is nagative about everything
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gail_harris	So when you get negative thoughts about not becoming a parent. If you can recognize them for what they are. You can say, "thanks for sharing, now go take a walk
mikelach	GraemsMama, yes we live in Illinois. Most of our charges have been covered 100% and we get 4 tries.
Lori	Would negative thought stopping be of help here in the head heart process?
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GraemsMama	wow..4 tries. That's great. Ours is $12,000/cycle
gail_harris	Lori, in a way you can't stop them from coming, but you can recognize them for what they are--not your truth-and choose not to listen to them
Lori	Good for you Mike and Lisa (?) everything I've done is out of pocket....everything!
Lori	thank gail
GraemsMama	I've sent my Doctor to Hawaii about 4 times
gail_harris	Whe
amarichal	Gail, Have you written a book about infertility?
Cat	My husband and I are adoping and we hope to stop in Hawaii on the way over. Seriously!
GraemsMama	Cat, where are you adopting from?
Cat	China
GraemsMama	and congrats!
Cat	Thank you its lovely of you
gail_harris	It is a book that helps you to understand what your heart is trying to tell you so you can use it's wisdom to make the right choices in your life, amarichal
GraemsMama	That's awesome! I love that show on TLC Adoption Stories -- they always make me cry like a baby.
mikelach	Cat, how long is the adoption process?
Morani123	Has anyone done independent adoption?
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judym	Gail, how can you distinguish between a "negative voice" and a "realistic voice"?
Cat	A year or so in total.
GraemsMama	boy, that's almost how long you'd be pregnant
GraemsMama	and you get to keep your figure!
mikelach	Has anyone used donor sperm?
deb_capone	The AFA has a monthly adoption Online Education Session. THe next one is on international adoption. Check the calendar for details.
GraemsMama	we used donor sperm that we got from a sperm bank
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gail_harris	I thought we could all try something together called a my heart knows affirmation, which is the simplest way to hear a message from your heart. is anybody game
Lori	Gail, I totally get the heart thing and I am a 100% believer but what do you do when funds are limited, permanent health issues are at stake and you choices of Drs. are limited to 1 clinic in the closest city that you live?
GraemsMama	it's amazing how many people say my daughter looks exactly like me, same eyes, nose, mouth. The sperm bank can actually match your picture to one of their donors.
Morani123	yes we are Gail.
amarichal	yes, Gail.
Lori	Mikelach, i use donor sperm as well
mikelach	GraemsMana, did you get to look at the profiles of each donor? (Leslie is gone, it's Mike again and I'm curious about the process.
GraemsMama	sure gail
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Lori	I'm in
nikki	sure
gail_harris	Great. Close you eyes. Place your heands on your heart. Take in a gentle breath and say, "My hear knows". then complete the sentance with what arise for you. You will be amazed at what you discover. Let's go. Check in with me after you have done this exercise
GraemsMama	mike: yes, we looked at tons! and on the ones that we are interested in we purchased the extended profiles. Some of them you can even see child hood photos. We went through The Sperm Bank of California
mikelach	If it has to happen I'm open to that before adoption, I want my wife to go through the process of having the baby!
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amarichal	My heart knows that we're going to be ok. However this journey ends, I'll still be loved by my family and God, and I'll have a baby somehow... biological or adoption. It's going to work out and I won't be in this limbo-land forever.
GraemsMama	well, it sounds like you have a peace about that, so maybe that's the next step
gail_harris	What have you discovered abut yourself and your process
gail_harris	great amarichal! This is something to lean on when the times get rough.
Cat	Infertility is a heartbreak
judym	Thank you Gail, I must leave. Bye everyone.
GraemsMama	The process had made me a stronger person after I look back on it all and on our relationship
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Morani123	Anne and myself know that we will be parents this year, through adoption.
gail_harris	Cat, yes this is so true, but the story isn't over yet.
Lori	I have to agree with amarichal, but I also feel I have ADD and could use meds for that too!
Cat	How do you know everything has a happy ending?
amarichal	Lori is right about the ADD... I wake up thinking of babies, it's an ever-present thought.
Lori	You have to believe with all your heart cat
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deb_capone	If you aren't already a "No Barriers" member of the AFA join now at www.theafa.org. Its free!
gail_harris	That is a great question. We don't alwys get what we want. but our heart's wisdom can guide us to make the right chosces so when we put our head down on our pillow, we kno we have done our best. This is nothing to sneeze at.
amarichal	Deb, How often are there chats like this? This is my first one.
Morani123	I feel that we will be parents, but it is an emotional anchor on both of us. How do you snap out of the funk?
gail_harris	Would anybody else like to share what their heart revelaed to them
Lori	that's exactly how i try to live everyday gail! the only one I can ultimately please is myself and only i know if i've given that day the very best i have to offer
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GraemsMama	morani: we took a nice break, vacation, and lots of wine.
Morani123	Amen! Can we add that to the adoption loan?
gail_harris	Lori, nobody can give you the answers. you have them all in your heart
GraemsMama	hahaha sure!!!
GraemsMama	we had 6 months (summer months) where we just did outdoor stuff and didn't think about babies - then in October we started back strong
nikki	My heart knows that God is in control and I must learn to be patient.
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Lori	Thru this process tonite, i'm finding that out! Thanks
Cat	Playing devil's advocate there are times when we feel abandoned by God.
Morani123	I will have to take the wife away for a litle bit. To clear both our heads.
deb_capone	The AFA hosts an Online Education Session every Tuesday night from 8-9pm Eastern. Your feedback is really important to us. Let me know if you have any comments or suggestions. deb@theafa.org
gail_harris	Here is something to try to keep your connectin to your heart. go get a fertility rock and keep it near your bed. If you are doing an ivf cycle and are ding shots with your partner, instead of dreading it, make it a ceremony and do it with love. Think of this as one step closer to becoming a parent. This will make your expereince richer and fuller.
mikelach	Mike: I feel this is a lot more science then God!
deb_capone	I want to take a minute to thank Gail for her time and expertise. This has been an amazing session. As you know, we start and end on time and we are about six minutes from the end of our session.
Morani123	Cat I am so with you. I feel an awful lot that my Catholic God has abondonded me as well as Our lady Mary whom I had/have a strong bond with. I recently stopped saying the Rosary for a baby.
Lori	It is when you are feeling abandoned that you must look around and relize that you are not alone, you might not be getting the results you want but what are you getting from the journey? you are never alone!
gail_harris	Yesm ,Lori. you are very wise.
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Morani123	Cat, it is when you feel the most abandoned that you have to, have to have to read FOOTPRINTS in the sand.....then you open your heart to hear God's hand smoothing your hair and tears
amarichal	If I get pregnant it will be a miracle from God. I'm trusting that He knows what's best for us. I know when this is over I may not have gotten what I wanted, but I'll still have Him.
gail_harris	Morani, I have been exactly where you have been. Trust your journey
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deb_capone	I would like to invite Gail to make some closing comments and to let us know were we can purchase her book!
Morani123	and He says My precious child I am holding you; hang on, all that I have for you is coming....but just like trains, planes there are "schedules"
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Morani123	Thanks to Gail. I needed that
gail_harris	When i lost my twins I was so angry at god. i had no idea of the gifts I had in store
amarichal	Thank you Gail and Deb. This has been refreshing, which is what I need one day post-IUI.
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Lori	Thanks Gail, this has been by far the most productive and successful chat I've had here! Peace to all of you!
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gail_harris	Thank you, Deb. My closing comment is trust this process and trust yourself. you will make your way through this journey and it will be your way. it may not be the way you wanted, but when you are a parent, you bettcha you will feel differently. know that you WILL be a parent if you want to. Trust. Trust yourself.
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gail_harris	You can by my book at my webiste www.yourheartknows.com or at B&N and borders and also both of those stores.com
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deb_capone	Please join us next Tuesday at 8pm for our next session. Thank you, Gail. Good night everyone.
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Morani123	Thank you Gail. Thank you everone. God Bless.
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gail_harris	Thank you everyone. Remember your heart knows the answer.
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gail_harris	Good night everyone
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How to trust yourself to make the decision that is right for you.

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