Law Review: Gestational Surrogacy

May 23, 2006 - Tuesday
7:00 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers: Melissa Brisman, Esq.

Categories
Egg Donation • Gestational Carrier • IVF • Surrogacy

Session Date:	May 23 , 2006 - Tuesday
Guest Speaker:	Melissa Brisman, Esq
Topic:	Law Review: Gestational Surrogacy

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Moderator_DBecker	Good Evening Everyone -
melissa	Hi-I am tonights Speaker-does anyone have any questions
luly02	Good evening
Moderator_DBecker	Melissa, Why don't you introduce yourself i.e. a little bio
melissa	I specialize in all aspects of reproductive law including finding egg donors and gestational carriers, I am licensed to practice in NJ, NY , MA and Pa
Moderator_DBecker	I will be moderating this evening - if anyone has a problem you can Instant Message me and I will try to resolve the issue
melissa	my office is in park ridge, nj 201-505-0078, our website is www.reproductivelawyer.com, info@reproductivelawyer.com
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melissa	I help draft contracts for egg donors, carriers, sperm donors, do adoptions etc-does anyone have any questions
Moderator_DBecker	That's great Melissa, on behalf of the AFA (Mesissa is a Board Member) I welcome you to tonights chat
melissa	Thanks Dan-what topics would you like to hear about
Moderator_DBecker	Feel free to ask questions -- if you do not get a response, please feel free to repost the question
luly02	Hello Melissa
melissa	Hello luly02 do you have any questions
luly02	We are getting ready to do our first IVF cycle with egg donor. What advice can you give us in selection?
melissa	there are many ways to find an egg donor-you can use an agency, a law office such as mine or get the donor through the clinic or use a friend or a relative-how are you planning to select your donor
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Moderator_DBecker	July, you have to be a bit more specific e.g. is it an anonomous donor or a known donor
Moderator_DBecker	Welcome Jsara to tonights Chat with Melissa Brisman,Esq.
melissa	Jsara feel free to ask any questions
luly02	We are meeting with the doctor's office on Thursday to review their donor list.
melissa	luly02 first make a list of what is important is health most important, looks blood type, do you want a picture, once you have what you want on paper compare it to what is available-bear in mind that just because your donor has blue eyes does not mean your child will-just for example
melissa	Hi pam nomo and RF15015 do you have any questions
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Moderator_DBecker	Other topics that can be discussed are insurance issues, feel free to ask away
Moderator_DBecker	Welcome Tena and Tony to tonights chat
nomo	melissa does your office do traditional adoption as well
melissa	Welcome tenayagirl2 and Tony please feel free to ask any questions-I am an attorney specializing in reproductive law
melissa	Hi nono we only do adoptions if you have already located the child-if you need a referral I am sure my office or the afa could provide you with one
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tenayagirl2	hi, i am sorry i was not able to log until now. where is your office located?
jsara	How much can we expect to pay to compensate an egg donor?
melissa	Feel free to ask any questions about gestational carriers, egg donors, sperm donors contracts about these arrangements, adoptions
Moderator_DBecker	Welcome Yola, to tonights chat with Melisa Brisman, Esq.
melissa	hi jsara-egg donors compensation ranges from on average $5,000-$10,000-egg donors from nyc receive around $8,000-where are you located
tenayagirl2	so sorry if ask a question thats already been asked...what is the range of costs for surrogacy in califorbnia?
Moderator_DBecker	This is an open legal topic night for all issues - all questions are welcome
melissa	Renayagirl2 Hi-my office is located in New Jersey and our website is www.reproductivelawyer.com
tenayagirl2	also, would you be able to comment on the pertinaent issues when considering embryo adoption?
Moderator_DBecker	Melissa have the ASRM guidlines for Donor been increased?????
melissa	Tenayagirl2 the costs for surrogacy vary greatly depending on if you are compensating your carrier, if you need an egg donor-feel free to look on my website under estimated expenses and you will see the costs there
luly02	Please explain what risks if any there are with using an egg donor? What should we be cautious about? What legal ramifications are there?
jsara	Northern Virginia, Wahsington DC area. Can you recommend a donor program in this area?
Moderator_DBecker	IF you do not get an answer to a posted question for some time - please post again it is sometimes hard to keep track of all the questions together
melissa	the asrm guidelines for egg donors say that donors should be compensated no more than $10,000
melissa	hi luly - there are the normal ivf risks with using a donor but there are also legal risks-to minimize the legal risks you should have a contract with your egg donor that discuss issues such as confidentiality, future contact, medical liability etc
RF15015	Well, I have quite a story but I'll tell it and if it's too long just delete it. I have been through quite a couple of years. I began my research and after finding I would need fibroid surgery before carrying a baby, and realizing that at my age it might not be a good idea - I decided to use a surrogate. I needed a GS, ED, and SD. I am single and do not have a significant other. I spoke to a woman who has a surrogate agency in Ca. and learned about her service. She referred me to an attorney in Ca. I was about to choose an egg donor through an agency in Co. At the time I was going to contract for the egg donor I was contacted by the surrogate agency about donated embryo. In the interim I had found a surrogate on line. I was very interested in the donated embryos and sent $4,000 to obtain them. The GS waited with me and I paid her a stipend of $200 per month as well as having her and her husband screened. We waited about 8 months to be told the intended father changed his mind about donating the embryos. I never got the $4,000 back. I went back to the original egg donor at the agency in Co. Her price was triple and the agency price went up. I further had to wait for her because she was cycling for someone else. When she was available and I had found a sperm donor on line - and all the pieces seemed to be in place, - the GS tells me she's relocating to Az. from Ca. and won't be able to do it. Now I'm out the fees I paid to the GS and I have to find a GS ASAP as the ED is only available one week in March. I find a GS from an agency in Oregon. She'a available immediately. We try to make the fresh transfer in accord with the ED's schedule. The GS is not ready and we have to do a frozen transfer a few weeks after the retrieval. We transferred one embryo because I don't want twins. Unfortunately, it didn't work. Now we're cycling again. We will be transferring two embies this time. I have spent $60,000 and no baby. I don't know what I'll do it fhis doesn't work.
melissa	hi jsara-if you email me with what you are looking for after the chat i can send you some recommmendation info@reproductivelawyer.com
tenayagirl2	we are in calif. could you recommend some top attorneys in losangeles area? also, is there an independent website with tips on selecting an attorney for adoption? is it better for the attorney to be associated with a certain legal assoc?
melissa	hi rf15015-it sounds like you have been through quite an ordeal-is there a specific question you have for me
Moderator_DBecker	RF sorry for your ordeal - that is extremly frustrating
melissa	hi tenayagirl2-what kind of attorney are you looking for
melissa	Welcome Yola
luly02	Melissa - are those contracts we should expect to receive from our doctor's office or would we need an attorney?
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tenayagirl2	an attorney for domestic adoption or embryo adoption
RF15015	I was quite upset with what happened with the egg donor. We had a contract. I paid her $9,000 and the agency $4,000. There were additional fees. The agency in Co. asked me if I would mind paying her boyfriend
Moderator_DBecker	July it depends on where you are doing this (which state) and the kind of program
melissa	loly02-most couples use an independent attorney-if however your egg donor is from your doctor and not an agency you may not be given the option to do a contract-it all depends on the clinics set up
melissa	hi tenayagirl-the american accademy of adoption attorneys has a great website-i have the site address at my office-if you email me later this evening melissab@reproductivelawyer.com I will send you the webiste in the morning when i get in
Moderator_DBecker	Just a REMINDER - please check the AFA web site for other up-comming chats
melissa	rf15015-can you elaborate a little-what did the egg donro do wrong-is it her scheduleing
RF15015	boyfriend's airfare from another state as he would be traveling. They are both from AZ. I said that I would pay airfare from Az. only. I also arranged the hotel and charged it to my charge card. I chose a very nice hotel. I wanted her to be comfortable. The contract called for a compact car, which I arranged. Well, I had given the agency $2,000 for travel. As I charged the hotel separately I expected money back. It turns the donor upgraded herself to a suite, upgraded her car to a luxury car, etc. My bills from the hotel a long were almost $2,000. I paid double what the estimated travel would be. I received no accounting of the monies. Do I have any recourse?
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melissa	You should write your agency a letter -if you have a service agreement with them they should be providing you with accountings-also if the egg donor agreed to certain expenses and she went over what was written in the contract the agency should not be giving her about those caps
melissa	Hi Tony-do you have any questions tonight
Tony	Yes...
melissa	Tony-ask away
RF15015	The agency told me that the travel for her and her boyfriend from AZ. to Ca. was $806. I questioned this. Anyone can look on line and see it's a very inexpensive run. She sent my emails to the donor who became very angry at my questioning this. I looked at the contract and it says I have to go to arbitraton in Colorado. I called the court and got no where. Also, I wanted the donor to be willing to meet the child one day and I'm afraid to make waves. The agency took full advantage of me and handled things very unprofesssionally.
Tony	Have you heard about a new law that's being worked on that stops insurance companies from denying IVF coverage for high FSH when donor eggs are used?
melissa	RF15015 its hard to know exactly what recourse you may have without fully examining your case in detail-i am sorry for all your troubles
melissa	Hi Tony-I am not aware of any new law in this area
Tony	I've heard it's in the works...
Tony	..but maybe it's not a law yet
melissa	Hi Tony-many laws are in committee regarding different insurance issues across the country-until they are passed into law its anyones guess
RF15015	This is a very unregulated industry and people are opening cottage businesses in their kitchens with no idea of professionalism, fiduciary responsibility, confidentiality, etc. People who really want a child are very vulnerable.
Moderator_DBecker	Tony is it a state or federal law??????
melissa	RF15015 you make a very good point-that is why it is so important to do your research and check with clinics, references, and others before you hire anyone to do work on your behalf, do your homework
Tony	Don't know...heard it from Insurance specialist at out doctor
melissa	I noticed some of you have not asked any questions-if you ahve any topics you want addressed let me know
RF15015	I'm even upset with my clinic. The doctor knew I was doing a single embryo transfer. He froze the embies in batches of two and one was wasted when we transferred the one. Those embryos did not come easily. The whole experience has been very difficult.
melissa	RF15015 your doctor may have done that because not all embryos survive the thaw
RF15015	But then they could have thawed the second one. I can't create embryos again. I don't have the finances. This is it.
Moderator_DBecker	RF - unfortunetly when this situatins go bad it taints the whole process because what happened to you should not have happened and is more rare than regular in third party reproduction circles\
RF15015	The story of my life.
melissa	On a happier note you may be all pleased to hear that recently a PA appelate court ruled that a gestational carrier who tried to gain parental rights to triplets she delivered was denied such rights and ruled not to be the legal mother of the triples
RF15015	Is this the story of the IF who didn't pick up the babies at the hospital after delivery.
melissa	RF15015-the court papers indicate he was not able to pick up the children at the hospital because the hospital did not inform him properly of the discharge
RF15015	Those babies must be about a year old now.
melissa	Dan-do you have any topics you think I should talk about
luly02	Melissa or Dan - do you have any suggestions of a good website for assistance with donor selection? We will begin with our doctor's office and then go from there if we do find a suitable donor.
Moderator_DBecker	Melissa, one of my personal peeves perhaps, how often drs and hospital programs like to tell IVFers that their consents cover them and that they don't really need legal counsel but there is still language that says that they have been advised to seek legal counsel but waived the right
melissa	there are lots of places to look for donors, our office finds egg donors but there are a lot of agencies-it depends what qualities and type of agency you are looking for, feel free to email me with the details and i can point you in the right direction-good luck to you
luly02	thank you
RF15015	That was the hardest part for me. There are sooo many on line listed with agencies. You can get dizzy after a while. They're not all available either. I wanted someone I could meet and someone willing to meet the child one day. Unfortuantely, with all that happened, the child may not have that opportunity. I did meet both donors however.
Moderator_DBecker	RF, I am curious, did you have independent legal counsel when you were doing all of this??????
RF15015	Yes
melissa	RF15015 I think it can be difficult but most people do have a good experience, dont be discouraged, a good attorney to guide you through the process can make all the difference
Moderator_DBecker	WOW
Moderator_DBecker	I know that when someone like Melissa or myself represents a party in 3rd party reproduction situations we really try to help a client eveluate a program to avoid the very terrible situaiton you now findyourself in!
melissa	I second that-a lot of times I act as guide and oversee the agency situation
melissa	Does anyone have any other legal questions,www.reproductivelawyer.com
Moderator_DBecker	RF I asked the question because I have seen some agencies have their attorneys act on behalf of another party, personally I find that to be a conflict of interest and will always advise a client against such an arangement
RF15015	Well, in looking at the glass half full - I did find donors with a lot of qualities I was looking for. They both agreed to be known donors (important to me). The ED gave off 21 eggs and I wound up with 8 excellent quality embies after doing PGD. So, I guess if I have a happy ending it will all be worth it.
melissa	RF15015 I wish you all the best-
RF15015	Thank you
Moderator_DBecker	RF we hope so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RF15015	Me too - next transfer is set for June 2nd. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Moderator_DBecker	No Other questions
Moderator_DBecker	possitive thoughts going out to you
Moderator_DBecker	OK I have one - Melissa do you see a day when NY will legalize Gestational Surrogacy for a fee
melissa	Dan-I sure hope so-I am on a legislative committee to change this in NY but the process is very slow
RF15015	I hope everyone going through so much to have a child has the child(ren) they deserve. Too many people take their children for granted.
Moderator_DBecker	REMEMBER for those that are not signed up - THE AFA has the "no barriers program" - you can get great info for free!!!!
RF15015	Is gestational surrogacy in NY legal if it is not for a fee?
melissa	RF15015 it is legal in NY for no fee but not enforceable
Moderator_DBecker	See that is a very good question!
RF15015	So if the surrogate decides to keep the baby you don't have a prayer.
Moderator_DBecker	RF - surrogacy contracts are void as against public policy at the present time
melissa	RF15015 you have a chance but it wont be enforced based on the agreement
YOLA	I wonder where can we adopt embrios is it possible in CA or where in the USA ?
Moderator_DBecker	RF not necessarily what the COURT will do if decide the case in an adoption proceeding using the Best Interests of the Child test.
melissa	Yola-their is a wonderful website that lets put advertise who want to donate their embryos-i have it at my office-i could email it toyou tommorrow-
Moderator_DBecker	Please refer to it as "embryo donation/acceptance"
YOLA	and how much it cos to adopt embryos ?
Moderator_DBecker	That's another excellent question
melissa	Yola-people donate their embryos but you will still have to pay legal and medical costs
RF15015	Re: the donated embryo question - it is so costly to get to the point where you have embryos if using donor egg and donor sperm. It's a shame that more people don't donate them. It's such a shame to destroy them when people would be so grateful for them.
Moderator_DBecker	RF there are some complications in the actual use - including some medical tests of the parties that makes it a difficult process
RF15015	I know it's not legal to ask someone to share in some of the costs of getting to the point where you have donated embies. The donors are usually screened quite thoroughly.
melissa	Thank you for this opportunity tonight-feel free to email me with further questions or visit our website www.reproductivelawyer.com-the afa website also has great material! Have a great evening! You have a few moments to post a last question
luly02	Thank you Melissa
melissa	Your welcom luly02-good luck with your upcoming doctors visit
Tony	Thanks for everything
Moderator_DBecker	On behalf of the AFA it has been my pleasure and we thank Melissa for her time and expertise tonight
melissa	Your welcome Tony-have a good evening
RF15015	Thank you.
YOLA	thankyou for all your help
melissa	I hope everyone enjoyed the chat
Moderator_DBecker	Please remember to check the AFA Website for up-comming chats on other topics
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Moderator_DBecker	Good NIGHT everyone - have a GREAT EVENING
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Law Review: Gestational Surrogacy

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