Men, Women and Sex

February 1, 2005 - Tuesday
2:19 PM to 3:19 PM (EST)
Guest Speakers: William Petok, PhD

Categories
Fertility • Infertility • IVF • Sex • Sexual Health • Sexuality

	Lori_Masi_AFA_Patient_Advocate joined
	Lisa_Rosenthal joined
Lori_Masi_AFA Patient_Advocate	Welcome All! Please call the AFA Toll Free Support/Referral Line at 888-917-3777 for information, a referral in your area or just some good ol fashioned support. Looking forward to hearing from all of you! Lori Masi – AFA Patient Advocate
	angelgirl joined
Lisa_Rosenthal	Good evening everyone
Lori_Masi_AFA Patient_Advocate	Hi Lisa
angelgirl	hello room
Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi angelgirl, thanks for joining us, Hi Lori
	Orly joined
angelgirl	Ive never been on here before I recieved an email today and it sounded very interesting
	Rochelle joined
	Dr._Bill_Petok joined
Lisa_Rosenthal	Angelgirl, it is always interesting with Dr. Petok, wait and see!
Lori_Masi_AFA Patient_Advocate	Angel girl - you will love it!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi Dr. Petok, thanks for joining us this evening. We appreciate it!
	pfd joined
Dr._Bill_Petok	Hello everyone. Its good to be here again!
angelgirl	Hello Doctor
Dr._Bill_Petok	Hello
pfd	This seems like a very interesting topic after trying to conceive for 18 months and just starting IVF.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Tonight's discussion is open to a wide range of issues regarding men, women and sex. This is straight from Dr. Petok's notes that he sent to me.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Please feel free to ask Dr. Petok questions that you might have.
Lori_Masi_AFA Patient_Advocate	For those of you who don't know me - I am Lori Masi - the AFA Patient Advocate. Please call me anytime for info, referrals or support, Mon, Wed Th Fr 9am - 5pm EST and tues evenings 5 - 10 pm!
Lisa_Rosenthal	The entire topic of fertility is fraught with notions of sexuality. And since most people try to have their children in the "traditional way" through sexual intercourse, it is an important process for couples. At the same time many people think that sex is intercourse. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Sexual interaction involves a wide range of behavior that can bring pleasure to individuals and couples. Sexual interaction is important to couples because it is one way that they enhance the intimacy in their relationships. At the same time, couples that report good relationships identify their sexual relationship as accounting for about 20% of what makes it good. We know that men
Lisa_Rosenthal	Again, straight from Dr. Petok's notes.
	Rochelle left
Orly	How could I possibly care about having sex when I am bloated and overdone from the drugs? Help
	Stephen joined
Lori_Masi_AFA Patient_Advocate	Welcome Dr Petok!
Stephen	Hi Lisa, hi Lori
Dr._Bill_Petok	Orly, that's a great question. Intercourse may be the last thing you are thinking about when you feel like that.
Lori_Masi_AFA Patient_Advocate	Hi Stephen and everyone!
Dr._Bill_Petok	At the same time, sex is a lot more than intercourse and I would expect that some physical affection might be pleasant.
Stephen	That's part of my trouble, I'm the guy. I still want to have sex and that does not make me popular in my house right now.
pfd	Ill jump in with a question. I guess I am wondering if I am normal, because I feel like our sex life (intercourse) has diminished to baby making afetr months of TTC and now that it is out of our hands and in the hands of the "lab" we are welcomign the break from the demands of "do it today" , "dont do it tomororw" . AS long as their is intimacy in other ways, is it normal that frequency and desire for intercourse dminshes with long term IF?
angelgirl	How can I increase cervical mucus..it seems as if I always have dryness and I am afraid to use an OTC because of harm it might do to the sperm....is there any OTC brand that is safe?
Dr._Bill_Petok	Stephen, I expect that could happen. Of course it all depends on how you bring up the topic.
Dr._Bill_Petok	Let me answer pfd's question first.
local	[332] Men, Women, and Sex- William Petok, PhD
	wannababy joined
Dr._Bill_Petok	It is very normal that frequency and desire diminish after a long series of interventions...many of which feel like "Sex on Demand"
Lisa_Rosenthal	Please feel free to post questions for Dr. Petok, but prepared to repost as he needs to be able to take his time answering questions!!!
Dr._Bill_Petok	And intimacy is not limited to intercourse as I said before. Hugging kissing and other forms of touching can be just as "sexy" and offer pleasure.
	Julianne joined
	Diane joined
pfd	exactly? Will it return to pre-TTC "just lovemeaking" and notbaby making someday?
Diane	Hi
Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi Diane, thanks for joining us this evening!
Dr._Bill_Petok	pfd, I think that this is very possible. When the pressure is off things can return to "normal". I think the key is to understand that there are many reasons for lovemaking.
	Jne43 joined
pfd	thank you, dr.
Dr._Bill_Petok	During treatment folks tend to get hung up on the babymaking aspect, for very good reasons. There are several reasons for being sexual: relationship enhancement and pleasure are two of them. We tend to forget about them during treatment.
Dr._Bill_Petok	Anglegirl, your question is a bit complicated for a psychologist to answer because it is medical in nature. I would have to defer to your physician to answer that one.
	DDeborah joined
Lori_Masi_AFA Patient_Advocate	Welcome All! Please call the AFA Toll Free Support/Referral Line at 888-917-3777 for information, a referral in your area or just some good ol fashioned support. Looking forward to hearing from all of you! Lori Masi – AFA Patient Advocate
pfd	very true. any tips in addition to the one you mentioned about other forms of intimacy? thanks for normalizing this for me.
angelgirl	ok
Dr._Bill_Petok	pfd, there are sensual massages, showering together, snuggling on the couch, etc....all of which are the physically intimate side of things. I think its important to remember that one of the things that can make sex enjoyable is a playful nature....oftentimes treatment interrupts playfullness!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Angelgirl, we have medical message boards on our website that are answered by physicians every single day. Please feel free to post your question there.
	angelgirl left
	Anon joined
Dr._Bill_Petok	One of the things I frequently hear from people is that they want sex to return to the way it was early in their relationship. Of course its impossible to recreate the circumstances that brought you together and created the initial spark. However, mosts couples tend to grow in their sexual relationship as they get to know each other and the things that bring the most pleasure.
	DDeborah left
Diane	Should I push myself to have sex even if I don't feel sexy or in the mood? Sometimes, when I do, it's ok, sometimes, it's not.
localhost	[2009] touser The American Fertility Association has free membership! Please go online and you will have access to all our publications at "No Barriers".
Dr._Bill_Petok	Diane, that really depends on a lot of things. Certainly, not every sexual encounter is desired equally by each party.
	Barbara joined
Dr._Bill_Petok	And there are times when we "do it" for the other person. However, there are times when its ok to say I'm not in the mood. This does tend to point out one of the differences between men and women.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Petok will be writing an article for our upcoming magazine on Fertility and Sexuality.
Dr._Bill_Petok	For most men, release is the important component of sex. For women, it is emotional initmacy.
Barbara	Dr. Petok, as in when a man's not in the mood, it's a little more difficult? LOL
Barbara	Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Dr._Bill_Petok	And intimacy can be obtained in lots of physical ways.
Dr._Bill_Petok	Barbara, I appreciate the sense of humor!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Barbara, a sense of humor can go a long, long way, especially with intimacy, right Dr. Petok?
Lori_Masi_AFA Patient_Advocate	Don’t Forget to please call the AFA Toll Free Support/Referral Line at 888-917-3777 for information, a referral in your area or support. Looking forward to hearing from all of you! Lori Masi – AFA Patient Advocate
Dr._Bill_Petok	That's right, Lisa. The thing is, a man can provide pleasure to a partner if he's not in the mood....you don't need an erection to give pleasure, if that's what you mean.
Stephen	Well, speaking as a guy who is fairly sensitive, I am in the mood much more often than my spouse and that was not true before treatment. Any suggestions how not to come off as a jerk?
Dr._Bill_Petok	Stephen, I think I would start with kind words about how you miss the physical intimacy that sex brings between the two of you.
pfd	Thank you, Dr., for your feedback. It helps a lot. ShouldI five myself permission to not worry about whether or not we are making love so long as we are finding ways to be close and intimate and trust that with time the effects Infertilty has had on us will heal ?
Dr._Bill_Petok	And then I would talk about what she might be missing. How does your partner feel about the lack of sexual interaction
	hopeandpray joined
Jne43	If it were my husband and he started that type of conversation, I would think that it was all about him!
localhost	[2009] touser The American Fertility Association has a set of message boards, several which are moderated by a physician daily. Please feel free to stop by and ask questions there as well! Also, "Connections" will meet every week for an online educational session. Please check the schedule on our home page.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Welcome hopeandpray, thanks for joining us this evening.
hopeandpray	Thanks so much. What is tonights focus so far?
Dr._Bill_Petok	pfd, I think that's a good approach. There are some good suggestions on how to maintain contact that will be in an upcoming issue of the AFA Magazine
Lisa_Rosenthal	Hope and Pray, we're discussing Men, Women and Sex, with Dr. William Petok. Please feel free to post questions or comments.
pfd	thank you. your normalizing this phenomenon helps a lot hear. it isnt just me and my usband this happens to. Ill look forward to the article .
Dr._Bill_Petok	Jne43, would there be a way your husband could say the same thing without you thinking it was about him?
Jne43	I think probably not, honestly. I just am not interested in sex right now, and would like to not have to deal with the subject at all.
	hopeandpray left
Dr._Bill_Petok	Do you miss anything about your sexual relationship from before?
	chloe2sheos joined
Jne43	No, not since we've been trying and in treatment- 2 years.
	Lori_Masi_AFA_Patient_Advocate left
Lisa_Rosenthal	Chloe, thanks for joining us this evening!
chloe2sheos	Thank you!
Dr._Bill_Petok	Is it the invasiveness of treatment that has removed closeness from the two of you...you know the "job" of sex phenomenon.
	Lori_Masi joined
	Lori_Masi left
chloe2sheos	i am not getting messages - is the discussion here occuring "in private" or just a quiet forum??
	Lori_Masi joined
Lisa_Rosenthal	Chloe, do you see what Dr. Petok posted right after you?
chloe2sheos	no
Lisa_Rosenthal	I think some folks are getting thrown off right now.
chloe2sheos	i see you innad out of the room, nothign else
chloe2sheos	i'll wait and see
Lisa_Rosenthal	But you can see what I post?
chloe2sheos	yes
Jne43	Chloe, can you see what I'm writing now?
chloe2sheos	yes
chloe2sheos	jne
Lisa_Rosenthal	Great, I think it's just a little quiet now. I'm going to repost some information that Dr. Petok sent me earlier.
Lisa_Rosenthal	The entire topic of fertility is fraught with notions of sexuality. And since most people try to have their children in the "traditional way" through sexual intercourse, it is an important process for couples. At the same time many people think that sex is intercourse. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Sexual interaction involves a wide range of behavior that can bring pleasure to individuals and couples. Sexual interaction is important to couples because it is one way that they enhance the intimacy in their relationships. At the same time, couples that report good relationships identify their sexual relationship as accounting for about 20% of what makes it good. We know that men
Dr._Bill_Petok	Jne43, I think that sometimes when the focus of sex has gotten so intensely on having a baby we forget about the other aspects of it that were pleasurable in the past.
wannababy	I would love a little romance, but am not interested in sex, but is this fair to our partners? I mean, we marry them for better or worse, etc. I feel like i'm cheating my husband.
Dr._Bill_Petok	I guess that as long as there are other ways to connect with a partner. And of course, desire isn't always the same for each person at the same time...it can come in waves.
pfd	I agree, i have found that it can become about timing and little else. the rest gets a bitlost after several months.
Dr._Bill_Petok	Wannababy, I think that romance is a great thing. Your partner may want some too...the question of course is what is romance to each of you?
	stephhuck joined
Dr._Bill_Petok	Also, wannababy, I have to re-emphasize that sex isn't just about intercourse. It can include lots of other behavior that gives pleasure.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Stephhuck, thanks for joining us this evening!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Please feel free to post questions for Dr. Petok
Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Petok, do you recommend counseling? And at what point?
	stephhuck left
	stephhuck joined
local	[332] Men, Women, and Sex- William Petok, PhD
Dr._Bill_Petok	As a psychologist, I'm very much in favor of counseling! And your question about when is a good one. I think that counseling is useful when a couple has trouble solving a problem on its own. Many infertility clinics have mental health professionals on staff who can give limited advice about how to deal with lowered sexual desire during treatment
chloe2sheos	and how much is considered par for course given that the dire focus IS to become pg?
	chrissy joined
	Lori_Masi left
	stephhuck left
Dr._Bill_Petok	I think its very normal for desire to wane, especially if a couple doesn't take steps to keep some focus on physical closeness just for the sake of closeness...it needn't all be about babymaking.
chloe2sheos	so, what is the limited advice given??
pfd	we are on a break from babymaking this month becasue we start IVF next month and have found that naturally neither of us have wanted to do very much as far as "intercourse' but have both wanted to be close and have been physical in other ways. I am so glad that is considered normal.
Dr._Bill_Petok	Well, Chloe, for one thing, I recommend that couples make "dates" for intimacy where pregnancy is not the focus. This might be as simple as a nice dinner at home with candles and dim lights. It might even mean taking a night off and going to a motel/hotel...or a sensual massage.
chloe2sheos	good advice. works for us.
Dr._Bill_Petok	pfd, it is good to be normal isn't it!
wannababy	Dr. Petok, could you post your phone number for us?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Petok, Please do!!!
Dr._Bill_Petok	Another thought for you all is that intercourse leading to orgasm isn't the sine qua non of sexuality. There are many other forms of sexual interaction that produce mutual pleasure.
	Lori_Masi joined
Dr._Bill_Petok	Sure, I'll be glad to give you my phone number. I'm located in Baltimore, Maryland and the number is (410)664-3329.
pfd	yes, it is! It is so validating to hear you tell me this is is okay and within the normal reactions to infertility and it wont be this wya forever.
Dr._Bill_Petok	I'm glad to be helpful, pfd.
Lori_Masi	Hi All - I'm back - I keep getting knocked off!
Anon	Dr. Petok, what about if you're single and in treatment, what do you think about disclosure to someone you're dating?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Welcome back, Lori, we missed you!
chloe2sheos	what % of couples call sex quits along the inf journey?
local	[332] Men, Women, and Sex- William Petok, PhD
pfd	Lori, are you available to call just for pep talks, or only for resources?
localhost	[2009] touser The American Fertility Association has a set of message boards, several which are moderated by a physician daily. Please feel free to stop by and ask questions there as well! Also, "Connections" will meet every week for an online educational session. Please check the schedule on our home page.
Lori_Masi	thanks!
Dr._Bill_Petok	Anon, that's a good question. I think it depends on the depth/nature of the dating relationship....if its looking like its going to be long lasting I'm in favor of disclosure.
Anon	Thanks for the advice. it's not easy to be single, in treatment, and dating.
Dr._Bill_Petok	Chloe, I think that a small percentage of people call "it quits" along the journey. In fact, the research shows that only a small percentage of couples develop true sexual dysfunctions during treatment.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Petok, you are so wonderful. Who else could do sex like you???
Lori_Masi	pdf - Absolutely! Please call me anytime for support or just to chat! I'm here Mon, Wed Th & Fri 9 am - 5 pm EST and Tues evenings 5 - 10pm EST!
Dr._Bill_Petok	Anon, I agree. You are dealing with a most private issue in attempting to become pregnant and at the same time it may be very important to a potential longterm partner.
Jne43	You are wonderful, this is an uncomfortable subject, thanks for having it as a topic, with such a great speaker.
localhost	[2009] touser The American Fertility Association has a set of message boards, several which are moderated by a physician daily. Please feel free to stop by and ask questions there as well! Also, "Connections" will meet every week for an online educational session. Please check the schedule on our home page.
pfd	I agree thank you. it is nice to have an anoymous safe place to say "we arent having sex lately"
Barbara	hi doctor, what about sex in early pregnancy? I know that it's probably fine, but it is really scary!
Dr._Bill_Petok	Jne43, you bring up a good point about the uncomfortableness of the topic. Sex is difficult for most people to talk about on a good day because we don't get lots of practice with it for so many reasons. Add the stress of infertility and you have a more powerful set of inhibiting experiences that makes it more difficult
Lori_Masi	Don’t Forget to please call the AFA Toll Free Support/Referral Line at 888-917-3777 for information, a referral in your area or support. Looking forward to hearing from all of you! Lori Masi – AFA Patient Advocate
pfd	thanks, Lori. I may take you up on that.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Petok is the absolute best, especially when it comes to this type of discussion. I'm so glad that he agreed to join us this evening. A great big thank you for your time and effort, Dr. Petok!
Lori_Masi	pdf - anytime!
Orly	Doctor, any advice about helping my husband out? We have a severe male factor problem and he seems to feel that it's attached to him, sexually as well.
Dr._Bill_Petok	Barbara, of course you want to consult with your physician for a medical opinion. At the same time, if there are no medical reasons, sex during pregnancy is fine. Some women are uncomfortable during the first and third trimester and some men are scared that they may harm a developing fetus....this usually isn't possible, the human body and reproductive system being "designed" before people thought about these things!
pfd	what is next weeks topic?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Ladies and gentlemen, the way that I book such wonderful speakers is by promising them that they will be off at 9, sharp.
Dr._Bill_Petok	Orly, this is a common thing when male factor is present. In fact, guys seem to be more concerned about their sexuality when they are the focus. I would start by reassuring him that this isn't about sex, rather its about reproductive function. I know that sounds technical, but its true.
Lisa_Rosenthal	That leaves us about 6 minutes before Dr. Petok is done. Please do stop by our very active message boards. Lots of professionals and peer support as well.
Lisa_Rosenthal	pfd, i'm checking.
Orly	February 10, 2005, Thursday Speakers: Aaron Britvan, Esq., (Board Member of The American Fertility Association) and Carolyn Berger, LMCSW(Adoption Coordinator and Board Member of The American Fertility Association) Topic: Independent Adoption: The Legal Nuts & Bolts/The Emotional Journey Time: 8-9 PM, EST February 17, 2005, Thursday Speaker: I. Lane Wong, M.D. FACOG, (Huntington Reproductive Center in California) Topic: Third Party Reproduction Explained Time: 8-9 PM, EST February 24, 2005, Thursday Speaker: Melissa Brisman, Esq. Topic: An Overview of Updates in Reproductive Law Time: 8-9 PM, EST March 3, 2005, Thursday Speaker: David W. Schmidt, M.D. (The Center for Advanced Reproductive Medicine- Ham
Dr._Bill_Petok	Any body with a last minute question?
Orly	Oops, sorry, too much information
Lisa_Rosenthal	Yes, Sorry!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Thanks for posting that for me, Orly.
Jne43	Do things really ever go back to normal, or is there a new normal that is established?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Petok, if you wouldn't mind taking that last question, that would be great and then we really will let you go.
Jne43	Thank you Lisa and Dr. Petok, this has been great.
Dr._Bill_Petok	Jne43, I like your reframe! It is a new normal. Since relationships are constantly evolving you would expect that. Sometimes the treatment experience brings people closer because they have shared such an incredible experience.
Stephen	Thanks, good night.
Dr._Bill_Petok	Your
	Stephen left
Dr._Bill_Petok	welcome
Lori_Masi	Thank you Dr Petok for such a thoughtful and informative session! We all appreciate it!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Dr. Petok, thanks for shedding light on a subject that is uncomfortable to many of us. You have been just wonderful!!!
Dr._Bill_Petok	Jne, sometimes it gets sexier after wards...you know you feel closer and therefore more attracted.
pfd	ditto
wannababy	Good nite and thanks
	wannababy left
Dr._Bill_Petok	It is always my pleasure to spend time with AFA
Dr._Bill_Petok	Thanks for your great questions.
Lori_Masi	Don’t Forget to please call the AFA Toll Free Support/Referral Line at 888-917-3777 for information, a referral in your area or support. Looking forward to hearing from all of you! Lori Masi – AFA Patient Advocate
Barbara	That would be awesome, for us to get closer!! Thanks, doctor, lisa and lori
	pfd left
	Barbara left
	Lisa_Rosenthal left
	Jne43 left
	Anon left
	Orly left
	Diane left
	Lori_Masi left
	Dr._Bill_Petok left
	Julianne left
	chrissy left
	chloe2sheos left

Men, Women and Sex

Categories

Chat Archives