Reproduction and Law: Gestational Surrogacy, Ovum Donation and Embryo Adoption

July 20, 2004 - Tuesday
2:48 PM to 3:48 PM (EST)
Guest Speakers: Melissa Brisman, Esq.

Categories
Adoption • Egg Donation • Gestational Carrier • Pregnancy • Surrogacy • Third Party Reproduction

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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Does anyone know if this is the correct chat room, Melissa Brisman
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Hi Rita, it seems like they forgot about me.
Rita	Hi I hope not
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Look at the tilte-it has someone else's name on it, m clock says 8"07 what does you r say
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Rita	My clock says '03
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	HI-this is melissa brisman-it seems the moderator is not here so you can start asking me questions and i will try to answer
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Samantha	Hi Melissa,
Zaria	Can we start with some questions?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Hi Samantha,
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	yes please do
Samantha	I'm interested in surrogacy, but don't know what the legalities are of dealing with a "stranger." Also, not sure how one finds a good lawyer in our area?
Zaria	I'm considering donor egg and wondering if you can fill me in on some of the legal issues associated with a known egg donor.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Where are you located. Our office matches over 100 couples a year. It is a very steamlined process-
Samantha	I'm in NY, Melissa.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Known egg donors should have a contract that addresses parental rights, future contact, future medical information, donor complications, compensation and a host of other issues
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Samantha, we are right over the tapan zee in NJ, we have many NY couples, we can send you a full information pack or you can visit our website
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	www.reproductivelawyer.com
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	melissa brisman, 77 Market Street, Second Floor, Park Ridge, NJ 07656, 201-505-0078, melissab@reproductivelawyer.com, samantha do you have any specific questions
Zaria	Are parental rights completely severed for the known egg donor or is that based on what state you live in?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Zaria-where will you live and deliver the child
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Zaria	Live in NY and deliver there.
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Samantha	Great -- I work over the border in Northern NJ.. didn't know you were so close. Great, thanks. One more quick question: If the woman (surrogate) has her own insurance, does it always have to be so very expensive for the couple? Does it vary or is always a set price?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	In Ny the delivering mother is the mother, so you would be presumed the mother and are protected however a contract will clearly spell out the issues and prevent you in the future, the also is not completely clear on a host of issues related to egg donation so you should definately have a contract to protect you, and egg donor insurance for complications that may occur to the known donor
Zaria	Can you say more about egg donor insurance for the known donor? what would that be for?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	carriers generally are compensated around $15,000- the carrier's medical insurance is then reviewed to determine if it can be used to cover the pregnancy, if not generally you can purchase insurance for the pregnancy that is relatively inexpensive and will cover the pregnancy
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Egg donor insurance covers potential medical complications that occur to the donr with a deductible that is usually about $1,000-it protects you and the donor from extreme financial loss due to such complications
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	if i miss any questions please repeat
Samantha	Thanks Melissa. Are there other fees also, or is that $15K generally what can be expected? (Just trying to plan!) What are the legalities involved in NY/NJ as far as her right to change her mind and refunding of fees in that case etc?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	melissa brisman, 77 Market Street, Second Floor, Park Ridge, NJ 07656, 201-505-0078, melissab@reproductivelawyer.com, licensed to practive law in Ny, NJ, MA and PA
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Carriers are not found in NJ due to the laws in NJ, they usually reside in PA, MA RI Conn or other surrogate friendly states
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	you can check the website for the list of fees or email the office and we will send you a fee list that outlines what you can expect to pay for the everything-it is too much to list here
Zaria	Are the potential legal issues that surround egg donor less complicated than adoption? I guess I'm asking, what are the big legal issues for each? Sorry this question is as vague as it is but I'm at the beginning of getting educated on the subject.
Jane	Hi everyone, I'm Corey Whelan, Director of Development for The AFA. I'm so glad you're all here tonight. We are so lucky to have Melissa with us. Please feel free to post any of your questions for her.
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Yes egg donation is much less complicated than adoption legally-the contract is important but easy to create and very standard, some issues are confidentiality, medical info and complications, future contact,
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	as for adoption that is not my speciality with the exception of same sex co-parent adoptions and step parent adoption
Zaria	Does your office provide any linking services with known-donor agencies?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	can you clarify zaria-do you have a known donor or do you want to find one
Zaria	Would want to find one. I know some agencies have women who sign on as known donors, while most donors do not.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	does anyone have qu's
Samantha	Melissa, do you deal with carriers other than gestational? What I mean is, I've been diagnosed with premature ovarian failure and wouldn't have an egg to give. Do you deal with carriers willing to provide the egg as well or does one have to go the egg donation route too?
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	we deal with a third party egg in those situations-legally on the east coast traditionally surrogacy is not done, it is risky as the woman could potentially keep the baby or gain some rights over the child
Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi everyone, i'm so sorry that i'm late. Huge computer problems...
Samantha	Ahh. Okay, thanks.
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	I'm here if anyone has questions, melissa brisman, 77 Market Street, Second Floor, Park Ridge, NJ 07656, 201-505-0078, melissab@reproductivelawyer.com, www.reproductivelawyer.com, licensed to practive law in NJ, NY, MA and PA, 77 Market Street, Park Ridge, NJ 07656, 201-505-0078
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Does anyone have a topic they want me to talk a little about
Samantha	Okay, what are the legalities as far as a gestational carrier deciding to keep the baby? If she does that, what happens with all the fees paid etc?
Zaria	Not clear if you meant in your answer that your office has a professional relationship with agencies that have known donors and you help coordinate
local	[332] Reproduction and Law: Gestational Surrogacy, Ovum Donation and Embryo Adoption with Melissa B. Brisman, Esq.
Queens_College	In New York State what laws regulate the practice of donor transfer so that the recipient owns all the eggs in that cycle and presumably if there is a life birth, the child is uncontested?
localhost	[2009] touser Thank you for joining The American Fertility Association's online educational session. Please feel free to post questions for Ms. Brisman.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	In the us there have been 2 gest. carrier that have used the court system to try and keep the child. one in 1996 in ca-the carrier lost, the other case is in PA and is still pending, I believe it is unlikely that she could ever gain custody or rights to the child legally but possible
Samantha	Melissa, from the title that just came up -- what is embryo adoption? When there are embryos left over from someone else's IVF?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Zaria we do coordinate with agenvies that is not a problem-we have professional relationship with known donor agencies-does that help
Zaria	Yes, very much so because I don't know where to start looking. Just at the beginning of this.
Samantha	Even if the child was not related in any way to my husband or I, either? (would have to be a egg donor as mentioned, and sperm donor, too as my husband has a zero count.)
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Queens_College-Donors have rarely used the court system to gain rights to the child, under NY law it is unlikely that a donor would be able to do so, more likely that other ancillary issued will be litigated
Samantha	Other ancillary issues?
Zaria	Could you say more about what ancillary issues you are referring to in your answer to Queen's College's post.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Embryo adoption involves having a child with someone's remaining embryos and is legally complex
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	samantha-i dont understand the last question you asked about a carrier with egg and sperm donor
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	issues that have a potential to be litigated are more likely things such as confidentiality-can the child know who the donor was-right of access to know if a child wwas born rather than custody itself-does that make sense-this is how the contact protects you
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Hi Orly
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	hi Rosily, please post any questions and if I missed some please repeat
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	melissa brisman, 77 Market Street, Second Floor, Park Ridge, NJ 07656, 201-505-0078, melissab@reproductivelawyer.com, www.reproductivelawyer.com, licensed to practive law in NJ, NY, MA and PA
Rosily	How old is TOO OLD to have a baby via ovum donation or adoption?
Samantha	Sorry. You'd said that it was unlikely that a gest. carrier would be awarded custody of the child she's carrying/carried. I asked if that was so even if the child was unrelated to my husband or I either. (I'd have to use both an egg donor AND a sperm donor, so the child wouldn't be related to either my husband or I.) I wondered if, in that case, she'd actually have MORE legal right to the child than we do, should she decide to go to court.
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Rosily	I have been trying since I was 38. IVFs, donor IVFs, etc. Now I'm 50.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Most clinics have an age limit of 50 for the wife or a combined age of the husband and wife of 100
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Rosily-you are just at the border-if you get in know a clinic will probably take you
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Samatha, Legally that would be more risky since neither have a genetic connection, remember though it is unlikely for her to seek custody in the first place
Samantha	Yes, great question Rosily. Melissa, do gest. carriers "mind" older moms? I'll be 39 in a few months.
Rosily	OK. Guess it's too late for me. Money ran out also (LOL). I once went to Italy for DE/IVF, but I understand the country closed the clinic.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	No the carrier is not the issue with the age but the IVF clnic guidelines
Zaria	what are the legalities around seeing a picture of a known donor or even meeting her because deciding to go ahead?
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Rosily, the laws in Italy have changed drastically in the last several months.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Hi snowflake mommy please post any questions
Lisa_Rosenthal	Welcome snowflakemommy, thanks for joining us this evening.
snowflakemommy	ty
Samantha	Melissa... same question for gest. surrogates, please. Can we see photos etc?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Ms. Brisman, thanks so much for joining us this evening! We appreciate your time, patience and expertise.
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Rosily	Are there any statistics with moms over 50 and how they are doing? Do any of their children resent having older moms?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	seeing a picture does not implicate legalties on your side, but it does mean you will have a better chance of locating the donor in the future so it implicates her privacy
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	carriers are usually known individuals
Zaria	Do some agencies have a policy where they will let a woman wanting to get pregnant meet somone who has agreed to be a known donor or is that just after the child to be born is 18?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	No there are agencies that allow you to meet the donor before trying to use her, melissa brisman, 77 Market Street, Second Floor, Park Ridge, NJ 07656, 201-505-0078, melissab@reproductivelawyer.com, www.reproductivelawyer.com, licensed to practive law in NJ, NY, MA and PA, 77 Market Street, Park Ridge, NJ 07656, 201-505-0078
Samantha	I imagine there are different levels of desired contact after the birth (with carriers)?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	sorry about the trailer with my address i can't seem to get rid of it
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	yes that is true samantha
Zaria	Thanks for your help. I will certainly keep your number. Still trying to have a biological child but know that I must consider other options in a few months if
Zaria	things don't work out the way I wish them to
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	good luck Zaria-
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snowflakemommy	Question re: Embryo Adoption. What is recommended for "legal" relinguishment from the donating couple?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Ms. Brisman, where does one go if they are unsure of laws in their state to find out information?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Embryo donation is legally complex-although a contract is recommended one my always be aware that they are producing biological siblings of another person/couples child and this is tricky medically psychologically and legally
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Hana, thanks for joining us this evening
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	if one is unsure about information on surrogacy one can go to www.opts.org or .com-not sure which, for egg donation the local AFA chapter is really the best source
hana	It's nice to be here
Lisa_Rosenthal	Please feel free to post questions for Ms. Brisman. As it is busy, you may want to cut and paste your question in case you need to repost it!
Samantha	Melissa, is psychological counseling required for the carrier throughout the pregnancy? Seems like it would be a good idea?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	have i missed any qu's
Lisa_Rosenthal	The AFA does have a wonderful toll free number to call with these types of questions:
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	yes Samantha it is recommended-our office does arrange it but no every office is the same and some dont require it
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Rosily	Are there any statistics with moms over 50 and how they are doing? Do any of their children resent having older moms?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Rosily I am unsure this is more of a psychological medical question, lisa do you know
Lisa_Rosenthal	The AFA toll free number is: 1888-917-3777
Lisa_Rosenthal	Mella, thanks for joining us this evening.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Rosily, there are articles, not necessarily statistics
Rosily	OK
mella	Thanks
Lisa_Rosenthal	And certainly not well documented research
Rosily	I've read "Hot Flashes, Warm Bottles" -- very insightful.
Lisa_Rosenthal	The AFA pregnancy to parenting board has some older Moms who are also very insightful.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	I would guess that only recently have people been able to become moms at 50 via egg donation so the research would be slim
Rosily	I'll check that out. Thanks.
Rosily	I wonder how Joan Lunden is doing?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Hi, I noticed a few of you have not posted anything, please feel free to ask me anything,
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	melissa brisman, 77 Market Street, Second Floor, Park Ridge, NJ 07656, 201-505-0078, melissab@reproductivelawyer.com, www.reproductivelawyer.com, licensed to practive law in NJ, NY, MA and PA
hana	I am 34 years old and had a miscariage a couple of months ago. We live in CA, but are a patient of St. Barnabas in New Jersey. We are attempting a next IVF cycle at the end of this month with PGD testing. If this does not work, we are considering egg donation. My question is: do most RE's have the same pregnancy rate when it comes to egg donation
Lisa_Rosenthal	Joan Lunden is going to be joining us for the Kokopelli Gala this coming October, I'll let you know!
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	I am not sure but I think pregnancy rates are higher this way due to young eggs-lisa thoughts
Samantha	Melissa, can you talk a bit about fees and whether there are ways (payments? loans?) to meet these sometimes really high numbers -- or if you just have to continue saving to have it in one lump sum? I know a lot of our money is just gone because of failed fertility treatments.
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Many clinics offer financing, many people look to family, others use banks, mortages or savings
Lisa_Rosenthal	Hana, pregnancy rates are higher for older women or women with high fsh when they use donor ovum.
snowflakemommy	RE: Embryo Adoption. Where do 2 couples begin with coordinating relinquishment of embryos and what other documentation is recommended?
Rosily	Are any of you posters familiar with alternative means to become parents (i.e. out of the country)? A few years ago I communicated with some women who were as old as 51 undergoing DE/IVF in Spain, for example. The rates are a fraction of what it costs in the U.S.
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	There are several agencies that deal with donor embryos-one out in CA called snowflakes. Contracts are usually done by a law office
Lisa_Rosenthal	Ali, thanks for joining us this evening.
hana	Thank You, Lisa.
Rosily	In a case like that, would the services of a lawyer be warranted?
ali	Thanks, I"m here to listen and learn!
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	I am sorry none of my clients have gone out of the country-i would be careful though the FDA and other regulatory agencies that protect you in theUS are not the same in other coutries-i have clients form over 20 foreign countries who come here bc the IVF is better
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Have i missed any questions as time is getting short and want to make sure i answer them all
Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi Cynthia, thanks for joining us this evening!
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	melissa brisman, 77 Market Street, Second Floor, Park Ridge, NJ 07656, 201-505-0078, melissab@reproductivelawyer.com, www.reproductivelawyer.com, licensed to practive law in NJ, NY, MA and PA
Lisa_Rosenthal	Ms. Brisman, you've been doing a great job keeping up!
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Thanks Lisa
Cynthia	Why is my center telling me to get a lawyer just because I need to use donor sperm?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	is it a known donor Cynthia
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	icynthia are you single and do you live in ny
Cynthia	No, my partner and I want to have a child. we are not infertile. we are a same sex couple.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	cynthia do you live in ny
Cynthia	No, I live in New Hampshire
snowflakemommy	I'm aware of such agencies as Snowflakes. I appreciate their role in the option of adoption vs. donation. However, the couple in question is caucasian but living in Asia and trying to coordinate long distance is proving a challenge to help fascilitate adoption of their remaining embies. Looking for "how to" for them, as agencies such as Snowflakes do not go outside of USA
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	i am not sure of the laws in NH but some states if you are not a married couple the known donors rights are not clearly cut off and the contract would solidfy his (donors) lack of parental rights and/or responsibilities
Lisa_Rosenthal	snowflakemommy, are you part of the Snowflakes agency?
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snowflakemommy	courier can be an issue too, accross borders
snowflakemommy	No, but do have contact w/ them, thank you!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Quastie, thanks for joining us this evening. Please jump right in with any questions.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	they could shipe there embryos here to you easily if a clinic will take them and the courier is willing to do it, where do you live
snowflakemommy	USA...MI
snowflakemommy	finding the "right" courier is a concern
Lisa_Rosenthal	Ladies and gentlemen, we are lucky enough to have wonderful speakers. I promise them that they will be able to leave by 9 PM, sharp. That leaves us just about 5 minutes with Ms. Brisman.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	contact a local ivf clinic and ask who they use- i know the ones around my office but am not familiar with MI
snowflakemommy	I know that Snowflakes has had issues w/ delays even at Canadian borders
Rosily	I want to thank Ms. Brisman, and I've checked her interesting website. You are to be commended for the work you've done in support of surrogacy and other issues. Thank you.
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	i have had clients ship embryos from israel no problem so i assume getting the right contact her is key
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snowflakemommy	that's what I believe too, just not sure where to begin...
Lisa_Rosenthal	Rosily, you are so right. Ms. Brisman is truly wonderful and we were lucky to have her here this evening!
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Melissa_Brisman__Esq	thank you Rodily
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Thanks Lisa
snowflakemommy	can you direct me to couriers who would do overseas/international courier of embryos?
Cynthia	how would i know how to find a lawyer that knows something about this subject?
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	My clients picked up the embryos themselves from israel. I know the couriers in NJ but not in MI
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	in NH this might be hard -where is the donor from
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Cynthia will the insemination be in NH or MA
snowflakemommy	Themselves? Hmmm...we wondered if that may be the only option w/ international, unless there is medical courier agencies that will do this?
Cynthia	New Hampshire
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	if everything is in NH-you probably need a new hampshire lawyer-try the NH bar as i dont know anyone licensed in NH
Lisa_Rosenthal	We're going to let Cythina's question be the last one for Ms. Brisman this evening. Hopefully, she will come back really soon and do this again!
Samantha	You've really be a great help, Melissa -- thanks so much!
Melissa_Brisman__Esq	Thanks Lisa and Samantha. I enjoyed it.
Cynthia	Great, I'll call The AFA tomorrow and see what they have to say! thanks
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Reproduction and Law: Gestational Surrogacy, Ovum Donation and Embryo Adoption

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