The ABCs of Adoption

October 26, 2005 - Wednesday
1:42 PM to 2:42 PM (EST)
Guest Speakers: Carolyn Berger, LMSW, Chair Emerita of the Board of Directors, The American Fertility Association, and Aaron Britvan, Esq

Categories
Adoption • Foster Care

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deb_capone	Hi, Aaron. Thanks for joining us tonight.
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aaron_britvan	Type here
aaron_britvan	Dear Deb-nice to be here
deb_capone	Hi, This is Deb Capone the Education Coordinator From the AFA Carolyn Berger, LMSW, and Aaron Britvan, Esq., are here to help familiarize you with the adoption basics. Ask us about the different ways one can adopt (independent, international and agency adoption), how to figure out which method might work for you, and how to get started.
deb_capone	I see that Carolyn and Aaron have both joined us. Thank you both for your time.
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deb_capone	We are just going to wait a minute before we get started.
carolyn_berger	Type here fine!
aaron_britvan	testing-Aaron
deb_capone	I thought we would kick off tonight's session with Carolyn who will get us started. Aaron, feel free to chime in when you want.
deb_capone	You guys are doing great.
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deb_capone	Ok, it is now 8pm. Let's rock and roll!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Welcome everyone, thanks for joining us this evening.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Especially our speakers, Ms. Berger and Mr. Britvan
carolyn_berger	We are here tonight to answer any and all questions about independent, agency, and international adoption.
aaron_britvan	Lisa-it's good to be here and we would love to be of help-
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deb_capone	Carolyn, Aaron, can you tell us briefly what the differences are between independent and agency adoption?
aaron_britvan	welcome Orly
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carolyn_berger	deb, in independent adoption you find a birthmother who wants to place her baby and you employ a lawyer. In agency adoption the agency works between the adoptive parents and birthparents.
carolyn_berger	I might add that people need to find the kind of adoption they feel most comfortable with.
Orly	Do you need to be finished completely with treatment before starting adoption proceedings?
carolyn_berger	A great book that answers basic questions about adoption is The Complete Idiot's Guide to Adoption by Chris Adamec.
kapdank	I have heard different stories about domestic adoption and the level of involvement between the birth mother and the child after adoption. How is this decided and do the adopting parents have a choice?
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aaron_britvan	with independent adoption you are generally working with an attorney who guides you in the process of locating birth parents and protect your interest , obtain medical infomation and to be sure that everything is done legally.Agencies should be serving the same purpose , but with independent adoption , those seeking to adopt will be more proactive. and may have m ore control . However, as Carolyn said, you should do that which is most comfortable for you. The important thing is to become totally familiar with all forms of adoption which are available and not to act with haste or vulnerability.
carolyn_berger	The birthmother and the adoptive parents work toward creating the kind of adoption they are comfortable with. Some adoptions are still relatively closed while others are quite open.
Stephen	hi everyone
jmdill	Hello... I heard from someone that Hawaii has laws that favor the adopting parents, compared to other states... are you aware of this and how so?
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carolyn_berger	laws vary from state to state and you need to familiarize yourself with your state's laws before embarking on adoption.
aaron_britvan	Dear Kapdank...the majority of adoptions still fall into the classification of being more closed than open.
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Lemon	Did I miss the session?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi Lemon, nope, you're right on time.
carolyn_berger	Yet open adoption is growing in popularity.
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aaron_britvan	Dear jmdill- you should also be aware that there is an interstate compact wich all states are members of and if one in adopting a child from a different state one must comply with the laws of the respective states.
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kapdank	I have also heard that pursuing closed adoption takes a longer period of time than open adoption. If you wanted to pursue closed adoption are you better off doing an independent or an agency adoption?
Orly	Adoption seems like a whole other language
jmdill	sorry... but what is closed vs open adoption?
carolyn_berger	Orly, you are so right! Check out The Complete Idiot's Guide to Adoption by Chris Adamec for a crash course in the language of adoption!
aaron_britvan	dear kapdank...many more agencies are promoting open adoption and you may not have a choice. With independent adoption
carolyn_berger	jmdill, in a closed adoption the birthparents and adoptive parents have no contact; In open adoption they have varying degrees of contact according to the wishes of the birthparents and adoptive parents.
jmdill	thanks!
aaron_britvan	continue to kapdank-----with independent adoption both sides make the decision that is most comfortable for them.
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carolyn_berger	jmdill, you are welcome! Often people fear that in open adoption the birthparents and adoptive parents are together all the time. Open adoption may mean that they exchange cards and letter every year at a holiday like Christmas or on the child's birthday.
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carolyn_berger	Over time, an open adoption can become more or less open. A closed adoption may be opened up. This all goes according to the birthparents' and adoptive parents' wishes.
Diana	I'm afraid that my family will not accept a child of a different race
Lemon	why not work with a state agency?
carolyn_berger	Diana, adoption often forces us to examine our feelings about race. In the end you need to adopt the type of child you are most comfortable with.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Ms. Berger and Mr. Britvan, thank you so much for joining us this evening and sharing your knowledge.
kapdank	Legally, if I pursue and go through with a closed adoption, does the birth mother have any rights to open up the adoption and potentially try to get the child back or at least retain partial custody?
aaron_britvan	dear lemon-most state agencies are involved with foster care; and by taking in a child in foster care it may or may not lead to a final adoption.
carolyn_berger	Lisa, I know we are both happy to be here. We are adoption professionals but we are also adoptive parents. Once you have adopted you want to share this experience with others!
localhost	[2009] touser The American Fertility Association has free membership! Please go online and you will have access to all our publications at "No Barriers".
aaron_britvan	kapdank-every state has it's own laws, but once an adoption is final in any state, the birth parent has no rights to open up the adoption. Adoption creates a new relationship of parent and child and the birth parent relinquishes all rights forever.
carolyn_berger	kapdank, glad you asked. So many of us worry that our child will be taken away. If you have adopted legally this is not an issue. Every state gives the birthparents a window of time in which they may change their minds. In NY that window is 42 days. Beyond that window the birthparents may not take the child back.
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kapdank	That is 42 days from what? I live in NJ but would possibly deal with a NY lawyer or agency so how does that work in timing?
wannababy	Hi, what is the average cost of a domestic adoption?
localhost	[2009] touser Thanks for joining us this evening- Please feel free to post questions.
kapdank	also the cost of international adoption? and independent vs. agency adoption?
carolyn_berger	wannababy, in either case you may expect to spend approx. $30,000. It could be less if your birthmother has medical insurance or more if you wind up doing a lot of advertising.
kapdank	how much of the prebirth expenses are the adopting parents responsible for paying?
carolyn_berger	kapdank, there is lots of variabilitity, but $30,000 is an approximate cost.
aaron_britvan	kapdank-the window that Carolyn speaks of merely allows the birth mother to petition for a best interest hearing and in NY there is no absolute right for a birth parent to regain custody once placement is made and the proper papers have been executed.Carolyn made a typo, she meant to say 45 days...and after that the birth parent has no further rights to seek return of the child. the 45 days runs from the date of signing the p apers, but that is NY law and not NJ law. The timing is determined by the State where the adoption takes place which is generally where the adopting parents reside.
carolyn_berger	kapdank, if the birthmother has medical insurance you don't pay anything. If she has medicaid you don't pay anything. If she has no health insurance you may contribute, but all of the costs will later have to be approved by the judge.
carolyn_berger	kapdank, I should add that your lawyer or agency will tell you what things you can pay for according to the law.
aaron_britvan	kapdank-the allowance of prebirth expenses is determined differently in each state and will be dependent on where the adoption takes place. In NY reasonable expenses for a period of no more than 90 days is allowed. But by example, the state of Pa. does not permit any expenses except medical and legal.
aaron_britvan	Lisa-am I disconnected?
carolyn_berger	all, if this sounds extremely complicated realize that in the course of an adoption you will be guided by your lawyer or agency personnel. You will be asking them many questions as you proceed, and this is expected.
kapdank	so what is the law in NJ? in a domestic adoption, what is the timing and when do you receive the baby? when are the papers signed, etc? how do I find out what I would be responsible for paying prebirth in NJ?
wannababy	What about babies that are not wanted and have been abandoned?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Hi Mr. Britvan, we can still see what you are typing, so no disconnection.
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aaron_britvan	wannababy-children that are literally abandoned may be taken by the state and after the termination of parental rights they may be placed for adoption.
localhost	[2009] touser The American Fertility Association has a set of message boards, several which are moderated by a physician daily. Please feel free to stop by and ask questions there as well! Also, "Connections" will meet every week for an online educational session. Please check the schedule on our home page.
wannababy	and what about fostering a baby and then adopting? $30,000 is a huge amount of money. It seems like adoption is just for wealthy people.
kapdank	My husband and I were wondering ... being that the birth mother has the right to void the process and not give up the baby, can you pay all the medical expenses of the prenatal care and birth and then not get the baby? do you have any recourse to get the funds back?
carolyn_berger	The American Fertility Association has a message board devoted to adoption. If you have any questions after this session, please to to the board and we will be glad to give you more information.
Diana	What do you do about people who are constantly asking where you child is from and the adoption process is made the focal point of the relationship?
aaron_britvan	kapdank-it might be helpful to become with the adoption support group-adoptive parents committee- which has a NJ chapter.I do not have the NJ chapter's # on hand, but you might find Adoptive Parents Committee listed in the NJ and NY telephone directory.
carolyn_berger	kapdank, no you can't get funds you paid to a birthmosther back. For this reason lawyers encourage their clients to pay expenses that are essential.
prairiegirlwest	When you are counseling people who are thinking about adopting, what are some of the things you look for to tell you that they are ready to do so or not?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Ms. Berger and Mr. Britvan, could you explain to us about the transition from treatment to adoption?
carolyn_berger	diana, adoption is a lifelong journey. You will learn from other adoptive parents how to respond to intrusive and inappropriate questions. Also, just by adopting and learning about the process people will come to view you as an adoption expert and will seek your counsel.
carolyn_berger	prairiegirlwest, if parenting becomes more important to you than bearing a child you are ready to adopt.
aaron_britvan	kapdank-there is no recourse for monies advanced and it is therefore important to try and avoid making any large expenditures prior to the p lacement of the child. Do not feel tht you are in a competitive poisition and if you do not advance large sums that you will loose the situation to someone else. Those adopting may be vulnerable and there are sources out there that may seek to take advantage of your vulnerability. another good reason to join a support group and meet individuals who have gone through the process and can guide you in the right direction.
wannababy	My question: what aabout fostering a a baby and then adopting? $30,000 is a huge amount of money, as much as some people make in a year. It seems like adoption is just for wealthy people.
carolyn_berger	lisa, going from medical treatment to adoption takes time. You go thru a grieving process in which you give up your fantasy child. After you have grieved you will find that you are open to an adopted child.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Ms. Berger, Mr. Britvan, wannababy just posted her question for a second time. Please let her know what you think.
localhost	[2009] touser The American Fertility Association has free membership! Please go online and you will have access to all our publications at "No Barriers".
aaron_britvan	wannababy-I really think that 30,000 is on the very high side in independent adoption. Be aware that there is a federal tax credit of up to 10,000 $ for qualified adoption expenses.
Lisa_Rosenthal	There are some great questions and answers here this evening. Thanks to everyone for making this online session interesting and informative. Especially our speakers!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Mr. Britvan, could you explain more about the federal tax credit?
carolyn_berger	wannababy, if you adopt thru the foster care system you will not be spending money. If you are open to adopting a bi-racial or Aftrican American child in the USA you can accomplish this quicker and for less money than if you are seeking a Caucasian child.
wannababy	Is this because these children are less wanted or more drug, alcohol problems?
aaron_britvan	wannababy- in fostr care you do not pay anything and in fact you are paid wxpenses while the chld is in foster care. However, forster care may not lead to adoption and my just call for an interim period of caring for a child who is in limbo.
prairiegirlwest	wannababy- i have a great fact sheet at home about some of the myths and costs and such about adoption. I'm looking online now and am sure there are other good resources. One I looked at a little bit is http://www.nefe.org/adoption/index.html
Orly	what do you think about adopting from someone you know?
Lisa_Rosenthal	Thanks prairiegirlwest, it's always great to get new resources.
kapdank	wannababy, you may want to check with your company to see if they offer any adoption benefits. my company and my husband's company both give money back to assist in adoption costs
localhost	[2009] touser Thanks for joining us this evening- Please feel free to post questions.
carolyn_berger	wannababy, it is mainly because there is less of a demand for children of color. We all hope that this state of affairs does not last forever. Jane Aronson, a well-known adoption pediatrician talks of the hope that someday we will not look at children and see their race. Adoption, she says, could literally change the "face" of America.
wannababy	Thanks for all the good ideas and insights. I know that some of these questions and issues are really hard.
aaron_britvan	Lisa- the federal tax credit of 10,000$ applies to anyone whose adjusted gross income is below 150,000$. As the adjusted gross income increases , the allowance is p poportionally reduced until 190,000$, at which time it ends. The 150,000$ is the round figure- in fact the actual amt. is a few hundred dollars above that.
prairiegirlwest	http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/s_cost/s_cost.cfm
kapdank	what would you recommend a couple do if they are just beginning the process of adoption?
prairiegirlwest	That's a fact sheet, but not the one I am thinking of. I'm sure AFA also has a lot of good resource info but I'm not searching there because I know the fact sheet I'm thinking of came from somewhere else
carolyn_berger	prairiegirlwest, yes, The National Adoption Information Clearninghousw (NAIC) is a wonderful adoption resource!!
Lisa_Rosenthal	Thanks prairiegirlwest, you are quite right about wonderful information from The AFA as well!
carolyn_berger	kapdank, on the top of my list would be joining a group for people who have adopted and/or are in the process of adoption. These people can be a great source of information and support.
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carolyn_berger	all, I should add that for any of you in the New York Metro area The AFA runs a 5-week course on adoption. Each week is devoted to a different type of adoption and we bring in professionals who share what they know.
prairiegirlwest	Ok, I found the site I got this particular sheet from but I am late for the next thing in my day so I have to run. It's somewhere at http://www.adoptivefamilies.com/index.php. And with that, I will quit extolling the virtues of resources from someone other than our sponsor for this helpful chat.
kapdank	What support group would you recommend? The Adoptive Parents Committee, that Mr. Britvan recommended, or do you have another group?
carolyn_berger	prairiegirlwest, adoption pushes us all to look far and wide for the info. we need. Your latest resource, from Adoptive Families Magazine, is also good!
prairiegirlwest	umm, where is the "og out" link
prairiegirlwest	that is log out
prairiegirlwest	seems i can find resources but can't find my way!
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Lisa_Rosenthal	Ladies and gentlemen, I am able to get such wonderful speakers by promising them that they will be off at 9 sharp. That leaves us just a few minutes to speak with Ms. Berger and Mr. Britvan.
carolyn_berger	Kapdank, APC is a great place to turn to for info and support. If you adopt internationallly your agency may also put you in touch with people who are adopting.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Please remember that we have a wonderful message board dedicated just to adoption that you can post questions on any time.
wannababy	I am interested in adoption just disheartened about the costs.
carolyn_berger	Kapdank, also check our website for Telecoaching Groups. People from all over the US get together with an adoption professional and support one another on the phone. Try it!
Lisa_Rosenthal	wannababy, it is daunting, but not impossible. With the tax credit that Mr. Britvan was speaking about and other ways of borrowing money, it is possible.
deb_capone	APC is having its annual conference on 11/13 at Iona College in New Rochelle, NY. If you are in the NY Metro area it would be a great place to learn and meet other parents
kapdank	thanks for all the info. I am going to look into APC as soon as this discussion ends.
carolyn_berger	wannababy, if you ask about costs on our message board I will try to put you in touch with someone who can offer suggestions.
wannababy	thanks carolyn, i
wannababy	ll do that
wannababy	good night
carolyn_berger	wannababy, good night.
jmdill	thanks everyone.
Lisa_Rosenthal	Good night to all of you. Thanks for such great questions and a special thanks to Carolyn Berger and Aaron Britvan, you were teriffic. I hope that you will join us again!
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Stephen	good night and thanks
carolyn_berger	Thanks to all of you, to Lisa and Deb for all your help!
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kapdank	My husband and I both agree that these discussions are well worth an hour of your time so thank you for the opportunity to have these discussions
carolyn_berger	kapdank, please join us again!
Lisa_Rosenthal	kapdank, it is our pleasure, thank you for joining us this evening.
kapdank	we will. good night.
Orly	Lisa, always a pleasure, nite
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Lisa_Rosenthal	thanks Orly, good night
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The ABCs of Adoption

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