The Legal Nuts and Bolts of Surrogacy

March 13, 2007 - Tuesday
12:51 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers: Melissa B. Brisman, Esq

Categories
Donor Egg • Egg Donation • Gestational Carrier • Surrogacy • Third Party Reproduction

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Melissa_Brisman	HI Corey-I am testing this out
Corey_Whelan	Hi Melissa! My computer is running very slow
Melissa_Brisman	Ok no problem-mine is okay
Corey_Whelan	Welcome everyone to tonight's American Fertility Association chat - tonight we are very lucky to have Melissa Brisman, Esq join us to discuss the legal nuts and bolts of surrogacy. Ms. Brisman will be on hand to answer all of your questions concerning this very important topic. Ms. Brisman is world known for her ground breaking efforts in patient advocacy and has helped hundreds of people create family.
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Caitlin	Hi, can we get started? Hi Ms. Brisman, thank you for being here. Can you tell me the best states to go to find a surrogate? Do I need to go through a lawyer or through an agency? I live in NY State - that is a concern.
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Melissa_Brisman	Hi Caitlin-first there are two different types of surrogacy. one is gestational where the woman who delivers is not biologically related to the baby-the other is traditional where the woman carrying is the biological mother-which type of surrogacy are you asking about
Caitlin	I wouldn't be carrying the baby.
Caitlin	My RE says that surrogacy is probably my best option
Melissa_Brisman	I know Caitlin but would you be the biological mother
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Caitlin	My RE has concerns about gestational diabetes. Yes, my eggs are ok. my fsh is around 6
mallie	does CA allow the biological parents to be on the birth certificate for a baby carried by a gestational carrier?
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Corey_Whelan	Hang on Mallie. You're next.
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Melissa_Brisman	Caitlin-there are a lot of friendly states-the fact that you live in NY only means that if you are compensating your carrier she should not live in NY-the carrier can come fom most east coast states-you can use an agency or a law firm to help you find a carrier but you will definately need a lawyer for the birth order and contract work-our office does find carriers and do the legal work
Melissa_Brisman	you can request info from our website
Caitlin	thank you very much!
Melissa_Brisman	www.reproductivelawyer.com, 201-505-0078
Caitlin	Do most agencies have lawyers on staff or do you need to hire two separate entities?
Melissa_Brisman	Mallie ca does allow the parents on the birth certificate and is very friendly-remember your carrier must deliver in CA and we are talking about gestational carrier
mallie	thank you
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Melissa_Brisman	some lawyers office find carriers and do the screening such as my firm but most agencies dont have an attorney on staff, in fact for the carriers we dont find we are usually doing escrow contracts and birth orders for agency clients
Corey_Whelan	What are escrow contracts?
Melissa_Brisman	sorry forgot the comman
Melissa_Brisman	escrow is to make payments to the carrier, most funds are escrowed
Melissa_Brisman	contracts are the contract you will need between the gestational carrier and the intended parents
Melissa_Brisman	if my answers dont make sense feel free to ask me, typing this quickly is quite hard!
Corey_Whelan	Mallie, did you have any other questions? Welcome enussbaum. Do you have any questions for Ms. Brisman?
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Dolores	Hi everybody. I have a question. I need an ovum donor and a surrogate as well - I am in my mid fifties. I am really concerned about the surrogate contesting the birth, like an adoption. Does that happen? Does anyone ever use an egg donor and a surrogate as the same person? That's even scarier, but does it happen?
Dolores	The reason I am considering this instead of adoption is because I want a safe outcome, and a newborn.
Melissa_Brisman	hi Dolores-we handle over 200 gestational arrangements per year and half use an egg donor, none of our carriers that we found have even attempted to say they want to keep the child, there have been a few legal cases regarding carriers trying to keep the baby but none, to the best of my knowledge, have even won visitation or any other rights, this is a very very low risk
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Melissa_Brisman	Dolores a lot of women do this for the same reason as you
Melissa_Brisman	Please feel free to ask me any questions
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enussbaum	Hi--I am not quite ready to begin this process, but am trying to gather information and get ready. when working with a firm such as yours, can you give me an approximate idea of how long the process takes?
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Melissa_Brisman	If you are interested in having our office find the carrier it takes about 1.5 years to find the carrier, screen her and have her deliver a child for you. Feel free to check out our website www.reproductivelawyer.com or 201-505-0078 for a lot of good articles about the process
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Melissa_Brisman	Hi Andi, Teena and Gracie M-welcome and feel free to email me any questions Melissa Brisman, www.reproductivelawyer.com
enussbaum	thank you
Melissa_Brisman	Welcome dassuzan, please feel free to post any questions
GracieM	Can I choose my surrogate from many?
Melissa_Brisman	Gracie, I am not sure I understand your question
dassuzan	Hi! Do you recommend working with a particular agency?
GracieM	well, is there a process where you can pick the person you are comfortable with - do you have contact with her during the pregnancy? I would want to know she is a non smoker, doesn't do drugs, that sort of thing. I would want to be comfortable with who she is
Melissa_Brisman	Hi dassuzan, I am prejudiced of course since I am a lawyer but I think a lawyer offers you a lot more, they can find the carrier and do the legal work as well, its like one stop shopping
dassuzan	Which agencies do you work with?
GracieM	Also, what is the average age of surrogates and what is their typical compensation? Why do they do this - is it only the financial compensation?
Melissa_Brisman	Hi Gracie, most places you would go to find the carrier would give you a choice, our office shows you different women until you are happy with the one you actually choose, carrier can't do drugs or some, most people do know their carrier and visit her a few times during the pregnancy
GracieM	Do you interview the surrogate, or just go by photos?
dassuzan	So your office does a complete background check?
Melissa_Brisman	Hi dassuzan, we work with any agency that our client choses, there is not any particular one that comes to mind,
Melissa_Brisman	Gracie the average age of a gestational carrier is 38, although they can be up to 35, compensation ranges from 15-35 thousand, second and third time carriers get the higher end, first timers get from 15-25
dassuzan	I understand that in Nj, the genetic parents can be on the birth certificate of the child. Are there exceptions to this?
Melissa_Brisman	Gracie carriers usually do this for financial and emotional, most get great joy out of helping an infertile couple
GracieM	did you mean 28?
Melissa_Brisman	Gracie all carriers are interviewed in 3 stages, by the office, by the psychologist, and by the doctors
Melissa_Brisman	dassuzan, our carriers do have criminal background checks done on them as well as their spouse/partner if any
GracieM	Do my husband and I need to go through any kind of psychological testing? We're a little nuts you know! Not sure we would pass!
Melissa_Brisman	dasssuzan, the process in NJ to get the genetic parents on the birth certificate is complicated, this applies to any carrier delivering in NJ, carriers in NJ cannot be compensated and orders are obtained through the local courts and can be complicated
Melissa_Brisman	Gracie-no I didn't, most carriers are around 38 and are done having their own children
dassuzan	If carriers are not compensated in Nj, how does one recruit one in NJ?
enussbaum	do you work with carriers in many states, and which states in the northeast are the most friendly in allowing the genetic parents to be listed on the birth certificate?
Melissa_Brisman	gracie, most clinics do screen the parents psychologically but in order not to pass you would have to have a major issue-being a little nuts wouldn't make you fail or the clinics would not have any patients
GracieM	good news for us!
GracieM	thanks
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Melissa_Brisman	dassuzan, none of the carriers we find for couples are from NJ unless they live a few miles from PA and deliver in Philly
dassuzan	What about genetic parents on birth certificates in PA?
Melissa_Brisman	hi, we work with carriers in about 42 states, most of the northeast states are ok except for NH< NJ and NY for paid carriers, you can look at our website for complete articles www.reproductivelawyer.com or request an info packet
Melissa_Brisman	dassuzan, I am licsensed to practice in MA, NJ, NY and PA and have obtained over 50 orders from PA
allie	Hi everybody. Hi Ms. Brisman. Can I ask a question please - I am hoping that my younger sister will be my surrogate - she hasn't decided yet. What kind of contracts do we need for this type of arrangement?
allie	I had a hysterectomy
Melissa_Brisman	hi allie, has your sister had a child before and is she providing the egg or will it be your egg
Melissa_Brisman	also allie where do you live
allie	it would be my egg. She has no children. We live in upstate NY
allie	the Syracuse area
dassuzan	What restrictions are there in PA for genetic parent to be on birth certificates if own embyos are used?
allie	We work with Robert Kiltz MD
Melissa_Brisman	HI Allie, I dont know any clinic that would allow someone to be a carrier if they have not had achild, that is a basic medical requirement
allie	oh, we didn't know that
allie	wow
allie	I guess I'm back to square one. Even is it's family?
Melissa_Brisman	Hi Dassuzn, In PA the birth order is decided by county so I would need to know the county the carrier lives and where she will deliver to give you more detailed info
dassuzan	Re: insurance for surrogates, do most surrogates carry their own insurance? Who pays for the transfer?
Melissa_Brisman	Allie, it is really not recommended for several reasons, 1 if something happens during delivery your sister has not yet had her own family, alos emotionally is risky for her and medically you dont know her fertility
allie	this is upsetting but thank you for the information
dassuzan	Well what counties allow the genetic parent to be on birth certs?
Melissa_Brisman	dassuzan, many carriers have insurance but an equal number dont however their insurance would not cover the transfer or fertility medications as they are not infertile and this is a requirement for fertility benefits
allie	I don't think she wanted to anyway
Melissa_Brisman	allie, i am sure it is, hang in there
Melissa_Brisman	dassuzan, i dont have this info with me, there are at least 50 counties in pa, each one needs to be checked out at the time of the contract
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dassuzan	What is the approximate cost for the complete process from hiring a surrogate to transfer and then delivery?
Melissa_Brisman	it is approximately 40-50 thousand excluding the ivf costs
Corey_Whelan	folks, we are at the half way point. Please don't wait to ask Ms. Brisman your questions!
dassuzan	As long as the delivery is in that county will that suffice or do we need to look for surrogates from certain counties? Does your office help in that case?
dassuzan	Are the legal costs included in that 40-50 K?
Melissa_Brisman	we do help with picking the carrier and usually if the delivery occurs in that county you are fine but not always
Melissa_Brisman	yes legal is included in the estimate but the breakdown is on our website so you can get complete details there
dassuzan	What generally happens if the transfer is unsuccessful? or the pregnancy ends prior to successful delivery?
Melissa_Brisman	if the transfer is unsuccessful most carriers will try again, most carriers agree to try three times, if there is a miscarriage some carriers will try again some will not, it all depends
dassuzan	Do you pay at all for each unsuccessful attempt?
Melissa_Brisman	most carriers get 500-750 for each attempt plus expenses
dassuzan	The fees to the carrier; is that paid in stages and if so how?
Melissa_Brisman	the fees are usally paid smoothly over the nine months, so if your carrier is getting 18,000 that would be 2,000 per month
dassuzan	Do you see most insurances with an exclusion for surrogacy?
Melissa_Brisman	many insurance do have surrogacy exclusions and insurance is a tricky area that needs to be researched
Melissa_Brisman	Does anyone else have any questions?
dassuzan	Have you come across any cases where the surrogate has abused herself during pregnancy? What recourse does one have?
Melissa_Brisman	what do you mean abused herself
dassuzan	Eg. alcohol or drug use?
Melissa_Brisman	I am sure this is possible but we have not had this problem
dassuzan	Do you frequently see cases where the surrogate has refused to hand over the baby upon delivery?
Melissa_Brisman	I have nevere seen this happen
Corey_Whelan	folks, please make sure to join us on April 29th for Family Matters - The AFA Patient Conference. Ms. Brisman will be moderating a panel of surrogates and you c an get to meet her in person and also ask questions of gestational carriers. It takes place in NY - you can register through the AFA website.
dassuzan	How long does the process take after choosing a surrogate to complete all legal work?
Melissa_Brisman	Thanks Corey and we have many experienced carriers who will be speaking
Melissa_Brisman	the contract doea not usually take more than 2-3 weeks from start to finish
dassuzan	Should the contract be done prior to retieval? Does FETs work with surrogates?
Melissa_Brisman	if you are doing a fresh transfer the contract must be done prior to the start of meds
dassuzan	Do you charge a separate fee for matching surrogates?
Melissa_Brisman	many carriers have frozen transfers, my daughter was a frozen embryo
enussbaum	Do carriers often reject prospective parents?
Melissa_Brisman	no there is no separate fee for matching surrogates, if you want a complete fee schedule email info@reproductivelawyer.com and we can send you one
dassuzan	I understand that the doctors interview the surrogates, do the parents get to interview them?
Melissa_Brisman	enussbaum, we rarely reject prospective parents, we only do that if we dont think we can help them, for instance if you told me you needed a carrier who was jewish or chinese i would tell you in 10 years we have not had any carriers of this heritage etc
Melissa_Brisman	yes suzan
Melissa_Brisman	carriers sometimes reject parents if they dont match on certain issues like abortion reduction or
dassuzan	If the genetic parent are not on the certificate and adoption needs to be done, what is the approximate cost and process?
Melissa_Brisman	that depends on a lot of things but adoptions are usually a few thousand dollars
dassuzan	Must genetic parents consent to certain tests like amniosynthesis?
Corey_Whelan	folks, we have ten minutes left.
Melissa_Brisman	suzan intended parents can request an amnio but cannto force the carrier to have one or not
enussbaum	we are on what is most likely our final ivf cycle, and if it is unsuccessful, would like to begin this process. would it be appropriate to begin any part of the surrogate process now?
dassuzan	How long does it take? After adoption, does the surrogate have any claims?
Melissa_Brisman	enussbaum, i would recommend gathering all the paperwork now, but not doing anything like finding a carrier until you are sure, i certainly can send you a package of information so you can familiarize yourself with the process, hopefully you wont neede it in the end, info@reproductivelawyer.com
Melissa_Brisman	after adoption surrogate has no claims but the time frame is court specific usualloy 3-5 months
dassuzan	Since you went through the process yourself; did you find the experience emotionally challenging?
Melissa_Brisman	certainly some parts are emotionally challenging how ever it is very rewading in the end and i feel lucky to have had the option and choice
dassuzan	Thank you so much for answering my questions.
Melissa_Brisman	no problem, does anyone have any last minute questions
dassuzan	What is your web site
Melissa_Brisman	www.reproductivelawyer.com; email info@reproductivelawyer.com; phone 201-505-0078
dassuzan	thanks!
Melissa_Brisman	your welcome!
Corey_Whelan	folks, I want to thank you all SO MUCH for being here tonight and asking your questions. When you ask, we all learn. And thank you Ms. Brisman for your expertise and knowledge, and for taking the time to be with us tonight!
Melissa_Brisman	Thanks Corey for hosting the chat!
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Corey_Whelan	My absolute pleasure. Our time together is officially over. For those who are interested in recurrent pregnancy loss, please join us next week on Tuesday at 8! good night all. I wish you all the BEST OF LUCk!
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The Legal Nuts and Bolts of Surrogacy

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