What Is Independent Adoption? Can it Work for Me?

September 25, 2007 - Tuesday
1:35 PM to (EST)
Guest Speakers: Suzanne Nichols, Esq.

Categories
Adoption

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Corey_Whelan	Welcome everyone to tonight's chat on independent adoption. I am Corey Whelan, The AFA's Director of Development and your chat moderator this evening. Tonight's special guest is Suzanne Nichols, Esq. Ms. Nichols is one of the leading voices in adoption law today and we are very, very lucky to have her with us tonight. Welcome to everyone!
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tenayagirl2	hi
tenayagirl2	hi corey
tenayagirl2	i am glad i can get into this chat. in the past, i had a hard time accessing the chat room!
tenayagirl2	corey, r u able to read my msg?
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Corey_Whelan	Hi tenay, I can read your message, yes. Hi everybody! Welcome Ms. Nichols.
suzanne_nichols	Thank you.
Corey_Whelan	I think as early birds, you guys have the right to get your questions in early so feel free.
Corey_Whelan	I am wondering, Kara and Tenay, are either of you actively pursuing adoption right now? Or just checking it out.
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tenayagirl2	hi
tenayagirl2	hi
Caitlin	Hi everyone, have we started?
Caitlin	I have a question - what are the best states to adopt from in the US?
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tenayagirl2	hi
tenayagirl2	hi
suzanne_nichols	Caitlin: This is a question that is difficult to answer. Adoption laws vary from state to state and there is no Uniform Adoption Act. This, unfortunately, would be a dangerous question for me to just start naming states with good laws...so much more is involved.
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Corey_Whelan	Thanks for your question, Caitlin. And welcome to everyone who has joined us. We have a lot of early birds tonight!
dvig	anyone finding private adoption frustrating?
suzanne_nichols	Should we perhaps start by discussing what private adoption means?
dvig	sorry-never did this before...
suzanne_nichols	DVig: I totally understand. It's just that I have no way of knowing what background information everyone has. Basically, private adoption means that one is pursuing adoption through an attorney rather than with an agency.
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dvig	yes! And I am finding it frustrating! My husband and I started back in January-and I guess I hoped things would have worked out better by now
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tenayagirl2	hi
Corey_Whelan	hi tenay. Did you have a question? We can read you
suzanne_nichols	DVIG: It is a process that takes a lot of work on the part of the individuals hoping to adopt. A couple has to be willing to put in time and to nurture the relationship with a birth mom.
tenayagirl2	i hope my message is going thru -- i have had trouble staying in the chat room
Corey_Whelan	Your message is going through, you're ok
dvig	There seems to be much competition out there. On parentprofiles.com, there are over 350 couples!
tenayagirl2	thank you, i will listen and learn first, then perhaps ask a question
suzanne_nichols	OK...I do think that there are a lot of prospective adoptive parents out there but there are also birth moms out there who are hoping to connect with the right family. A prospective adoptive family definitely needs an attorney to help them navigate the field. I don't know how one would go about this without the help of an attorney.
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dvig	Interesting...I was referred to an attorney AND an 'adoption consultant' who guides us as to what papers to advertise in across the country. We've had many 'hits,' but we're finding that many of the birth mothers are not really ready to give up the baby for adoption, or just plain drop out of sight. What's most frustrating is that we don't know why. I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself. Anyone in this chat room confused as to what I am discussing?
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Corey_Whelan	dvig, I don't know who referred you to an adoption consultant. I want to mention that The AFA really has taken a stand of opposition to using unlicensed facilitators in the field of adoption or surrogacy, or medicine. Be careful.
Corey_Whelan	And welcome to fortynk. Please feel free to jump right in!
suzanne_nichols	DVIG: I believe that one needs to work with an attorney who will help you through this process. It is overwhelming to just go "out there" on your own. As I stated earlier, adoption laws vary from state to state....so one needs an attorney to help them to choose what states to place their ads in. One also needs an eperienced attorney to help them through the screening process. It is very difficult to do the screening on your own when you are emotionally involved.
fortynk	thank you
Corey_Whelan	and pamela too. You snuck past me!
dvig	I am very happy with my attorney, thank goodness. Adopting privately was our first way to go, especially b/c when my husband and I started looking at agencies, it became so overwhelming b/c of the amount of agencies out there!
suzanne_nichols	That is great that you are happy with your attorney. Perhaps your attorney will be willing to advise you more on the screening so that it won't be so difficult for you. It is VERY important to feel comfortable with your attorney.
dvig	Has anyone else began private adoption process and finding it a little frustrating?
fortynk	i am form the very begining any advice where to start with a attoney or a home study
pamelahartmann	Thank you. I missed the first part of the conversation so perhaps you've already covered some of my thoughts. We are just starting the process and have only found one attorney so far within 75 miles of us that does independent adoptions. We started thinking about independent adoptions for the same reason the dvig stated....the number of agencies and information involved is overwhelming.
dvig	In addition, many agencies I found will provide certain services (like advertising for you and screening calls) dependent upon how much $$ you give them
suzanne_nichols	Fortynk and Pamela: The best way to find an attorney is to speak with friends who have adopted and are pleased with their attorney. You may also want to check with the American Academy of Adoption Attorneys for recommendations in your area. Adoptive parent groups may also be able to make good suggestions.
tenayagirl2	may i ask a delicate legal question anonomously here, to get your opinion?
suzanne_nichols	It's ok with me, tenay, if I can't answer it I will tell you.
pamelahartmann	Why don't more people do independent adoption? I have many friends and family who have adopted, but all of them have gone through agencies.
Corey_Whelan	fyi, you can also call The AFA helpline for free referral service.
suzanne_nichols	I think that sometimes people choose to go through an agency because they feel more protected. I find that people choose to pursue an independent adoption because they have more control. They are making the decision along with the birth mother (and sometimes the birth father) as to whether or not they will work together. In an independent adoption it is bascially the birthparents and the adoptive parents that will be setting the parameters for the relationship.
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tenayagirl2	one spouse had a juvenile criminal conviction and spent time in a youth camp prior to the age of 18, nothing after age 18. the records were sealed upon this person's request. subsequent job application processes and our own fingerprint search shows no criminal record. attorney stated that one cn legally answer "no" when asked on a form if one has ever been arrested and convicted. my question is:
tenayagirl2	!0 if an adoption agaency form (or a social work form for a home study) asks the question: "have you ever been arrested or convicted?" may a person say "no", just as in a job form? i am holding my breath on this one...
tenayagirl2	did u get my question?
tenayagirl2	am in chat room?
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tenayagirl2	hi
dvig	I'm no attorney, but I am in law enforcement. As far as I know, Sealed is SEALED and only for law enforcement knowledge. Welcome back!he he
tenayagirl2	i was bumped out of room-did you get my question?
suzanne_nichols	Tenay: In my opinion you can not say no. From what you have mentioned, this should not stop you from adopting...unless the convictions were for some type of child abuse. I would never tell anyone to answer no to such a question. In my experience....even when your criminal attorney tells you that your record has been expunged...they never are.
tenayagirl2	i wish to know-holding my breath on this-may we legally answer "no" to the same question on an adoption agency or home study form?
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dvig	I suggest you be honest anyway-and let the process flow
suzanne_nichols	Tenay: You should be honest...ordinarily you will have a chance to explain what happened in the past and I have not seen clients who have been unable to adopt because of youthful indescretions.
tenayagirl2	oh, this is very , very upsetting. this was someting that happened over 25 years ago!
suzanne_nichols	Tenay: From the info you presented...it should be ok except if it was a child abuse situation.
winette_montes	hi my name is Winette I know I'm late but I want to Know about independent adoption
Corey_Whelan	Tenay, if you lie and are found out, you will have a much harder time adopting than if you tell the truth. And you will be found out. There are no sealed files.
tenayagirl2	thank you for the directness-however, this is grealy troubling me. no, it certainly was not anything remotely related to child abuse. this person got into a bad fight in high school and was arested for assult,
pamelahartmann	I would agree with the honesty policy. From what I understand the home study is more based on what you have done with yourself since that time. 25 years and before the age of 18 - you have to believe that you will be given fair judgement based on your life now.
Corey_Whelan	Welcome Winette, hang on one second please
suzanne_nichols	Tenay: Honesty is the only way to go and as I have said....it was a long time ago and should be ok. REally
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tenayagirl2	i cannot believe that a social worker would not have concerns about a person with a charge like that. this is so disheartning. woulf the birthparent necessarily be told this info?
fortynk	i agree always be honest 25 years is a long time sounds like the leason was learned
winette_montes	I'm from Puerto Rico, I recently sent a message to theafa asking for information on adoption. I did not received an answer.
Corey_Whelan	Winette, I did not receive your question. Feel free to email me privately at corey@theafa.org
winette_montes	Thank you.
suzanne_nichols	Tenay: I can't begin to tell you the things that people have done in their youth. It is much more important to demonstrate who you are today. It is possible that a birthmother could choose to read a redacted version of your homestudy and it is possible that she could learn about the situation....however, it is unusual for a birth mom to request to read a homestudy. In some states it is required. HOWEVER, in my experience, birthmothers are FAR less judgemental that the adoptive parents.
winette_montes	Being from Puerto Rico do I have oportunity to adopt in the USA?
pamelahartmann	I think those kinds of things happen more frequently than perhaps anyone knows and certainly they may look into ALL of the facts pertaining to that case rather than making an abrupt decision about where that person's life is now.
tenayagirl2	suzanne-one more question please -- if one would disclose this to one's adoption attorney, but later decided not to answer "yes" on a social work form, would the attorney be bound to disclose this, or would attorney/client privilege apply?
suzanne_nichols	Tenay....I couldn't answer thi question. In my experience, when I have asked clients if they have any criminal history...and they say no and then we conduct the fingerprint checks etc.....it always comes up and then the courts want as to explain. It's not too late to talk to your attorney and have them prepare an affidavit.
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pamelahartmann	Can I go back a bit and refer to advertising? How does anyone determine what cities to advertise in?
suzanne_nichols	Winette: Re: Puerto Rico...at this time I don't know any reason why you couldn't adopt in the US...I have had clients from all over the world adopt here but I have not worked with families from Puerto Rico.
tenayagirl2	i have not consulted with an attorney yrt, but this gives me great pause. i do appreciate your honest answers. thank you
dvig	pamela...GREAT question!
suzanne_nichols	Pamela: Re: advertising...this is somethng that you need to discuss with your attorney. I don't know that any attorney can ever tell anyone what cities to advertise in but an important part of our job is to suggest states.
Luna	I came a bit late so apologize if this was asked already but what is the typical range of costs for financing an independent adoption?
dvig	some states have 'easier' adoption laws than others-hopefully your att will know which ones
Corey_Whelan	Pamela, one rule of thumb is to research the laws in each state; Conceive Magazine and The AFA have a list you can access on line. And talk to people who have adopted to garner their experiences.
Corey_Whelan	For example, people like to adopt from TX because the laws there are favorable for adoptive parents. And people like to advertise in Suffolk County NY because the teen birth rate there is so high
suzanne_nichols	Everyone: I hope you don't mind my interfering here but because adoption laws vary from state to state and because they are in a constant state of flux...I think it is very important to discuss this with an attorney. It can be very confusing...some states have very good laws but one has to be a resident to take advantage of the good laws....it is really not so simple and in my opinion...researching it online without the guidance of an attorney can put one in a difficult situation.
pamelahartmann	I have been to my state's website and have printed the section pertaining to advertising, but need help interpreting it (of course- after all, I'm not an attorney ) But do I have to learn the law from any state that I plan to advertise in or are my own state's laws the only ones that apply to me? ----I just saw your reply Suzanne and understand the need for an attorney.
suzanne_nichols	Luna: Regarding costs...I estimate that the total cost of an actual adoption (legal fees for you, the birthmom, uncovered medicals, support, counseling, etc.) can run from $15,000-$30,000. This doesn't include advertising costs.
dvig	Luna-I started advertising since Jan and spent approx $200-$300/month plus $1000 for attorney (for now) and $500 for homestudy. Atty gets another 6g after adoption process. However, I've seen agencies (like one in tx) for $35,000!
winette_montes	Who can I contact to start the process of adoption?
Luna	Thanks for your helpful responses,
dvig	I think the beauty of private adoption is that you can set limits according to your budget as to how much $$ to spend on advertising
pamelahartmann	Another question my husband just brought up....does anyone know how many independent adoptions there are verses agency adoptions? Just curious, I guess.
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suzanne_nichols	Winette: I suggest that you make a decision as to whether you want to pursue a private or an agency adoption. You may want to talk to several agencies and several attorneys before you choose a route.
suzanne_nichols	Pamela: I don't have any figures.
winette_montes	I don't know what advertising is, where can I find information on that?
winette_montes	I tried here in Puerto Rico, but the process is too long.
winette_montes	Sometimes people start visiting a newborn and when they get the child is eight yers old.
suzanne_nichols	Winette: Every attorney has a different approach to advertising...there is no one set way to do it some attorneys believe that one should take a "laid back" approach and place a few ads a month...other take a very aggressive approach. You have to do what you feel comfortable with. I happen to take a very aggressive approach to the advertising.
dvig	Suzanne-I've heard a cliche that you are just 'a number' and may have to wait 'years' going through an agency. How true is that, or does it depend on the agency?
tenayagirl2	suzanne, in your experience approximately what percentage of birthmoms would choose a couple that were age 45?
pamelahartmann	oooh. two great questions!
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winette_montes	that's what I like an agressive approach, I don't want to wait too much time.
suzanne_nichols	Dvig and tenay: I'm going to try and answer both questions. I think that when you are working with a private attorney you are less likely to feel like a number because you are working closely with the attorney and making things happen for yourself. With an agency you are more removed and don't know if anything is happening (even if it is). The age situation is NOTHING to worry about. I consider couples in their forties to be young...promise. I have worked with families over the last two years that have been in their 50's (lots) and I have had adoptive fathers as old as 75 and they have all gotten newborns. That;s what is so wonderful about a private adoption...if the birth parents connect with you they can choose you.
winette_montes	I'm 41 and I've been trying IVF for ten years with no results. Now I'm by myself and I'm still want to be a mom
dvig	suzanne, I've also heard that going through private adoption-if you keep the process up-you will eventually adopt. Not a matter of if, but 'when'.How do you know when to call it quits and possibly explore other options, like an agency?I'm not rrying to swat=y anyone away from private-and I plan to keep on going but...what an emotional rollercoaster!!
suzanne_nichols	Winette: You need to comply with the preadoption requirements of Puerto Rico and they find an attorney who will help you to adopt in one of the states.
dvig	That's 'SWAY'
suzanne_nichols	dvig: I know that you are not going to believe me but I promise you that most of my famiies have a baby in their home within 5-8 months of getting started.
winette_montes	Can I contact to you for this process? or Do I have to go with whaT THEY PROVIDE ME?
dvig	Oh my goodness-I'm on month 9 :(
pamelahartmann	Really? Month 9 of independent adoption?
suzanne_nichols	Dvig: you can certainly contact me....the choses will be yours...an attorney will not be telling you what you have to do.
suzanne_nichols	Dvig: I am sorry to hear that...I know that can be very depressing.
suzanne_nichols	I meant: choices!!
dvig	yep-in total got about 16 birthmother calls so far-went on internet end of June but started advertising in newspapers since Jan. Some seemed promising-and I heard alot of.."it's between you and another couple" blah blah blah
Corey_Whelan	folks, I want to give you a heads up that we only have five minutes left.
suzanne_nichols	Dvig: personally I don't find the internet to be a good way to locate a birthmom
dvig	why?
suzanne_nichols	Dvig: In my experience I find a lot of scams...you don't know what states you are dealing with and I find that most birthmoms who you would want to work with are placing babies because of economic needs and can't even afford to get online!
dvig	this has been SO helpful! thank you!!
winette_montes	Do you know of any adoption agency in Puerto Rico? So far I don't know of any other that Social Services.
winette_montes	And they do fosterhomes
suzanne_nichols	Winette: I don't but you may feel free to contact me at my office to discus you situation and I will try and find out for you.
dvig	Any chance this topic can be continued for another date and time?
winette_montes	Where can I contact you, any phone #
pamelahartmann	That is great information and was going to be my next questions (about internet advertising/web pages). Thank you for clarifying? DVIG, thanks for asking great questions~
suzanne_nichols	My office number is: (914) 697-4870
winette_montes	Thank You
tenayagirl2	suzanne, may i contact you also?
suzanne_nichols	You are very welcome
suzanne_nichols	Tenay: Of course...I am happy for anyone to contact me. I will try and be helpful!
pamelahartmann	And, thank you, Suzanne for your expertise!
tenayagirl2	thanks
suzanne_nichols	Thank all of you...this went so quickly!
pamelahartmann	TOO QUICKLY!
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dvig	can we reconvene at another date?
suzanne_nichols	It's not up to me...Corey?
pamelahartmann	Good luck to everyone in your pursuit to build a family! I'm up for a re-visit as well - any chance that will happen?
pamelahartmann	PLEASE?
dvig	he he
winette_montes	I will try to cantact you as soon as posible, I'm planing to travel to US
winette_montes	I would like to talk about this in person
suzanne_nichols	Great.
dvig	Go Corey!
Corey_Whelan	folks, I want to thank you all for joining us and asking all of your questions. Thank you Ms. Nichols for your great insights and for taking the time to join us.
pamelahartmann	Go Corey!
kara	Thank you
Corey_Whelan	You guys are all the best.
pamelahartmann	Thank you!
dvig	another date!!!
Corey_Whelan	thanks y'all. xo to you guys
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pamelahartmann	Go Corey!
Corey_Whelan	see you next week.
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dvig	Team Corey!
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What Is Independent Adoption? Can it Work for Me?

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